The church suffering on african lands

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Szdfan
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by Szdfan »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:04 pm Szd,

I made an explicit choice not to learn more about this specific conspiracy theory ever since the original accusation, and I am continuing to choose not to do so.

You are projecting something on to me that is simply not true; specifically, adding “existential threat”, which I never said. I left it open for debate if demographic change (or replacing a people) is good or bad. Was replacing Native Americans and First Nations peoples and states with European settlers good or bad? That’s a separate topic to discuss.

But did the replacement happen? Absolutely it did. Are you denying that it did? Is it wrong to call that “replacement”? Where I live, the original peoples of this land remain only in the names of rivers and towns.
John, thank you for confirming my point. You’re framing demographic change (which happens all the time) through the language of “replacement.” That’s not morally neutral language. It’s a framing that only makes sense as something negative -- fear, loss, something to resist -- regardless of whether you actually use the words “existential threat.”

What happened to Native Americans wasn’t “replacement.” It was colonialism. They were victims of an intentional project by colonial powers (and later the U.S. government) to dominate them, steal their land, and erase their culture. That’s not even in the same moral universe as asylum seekers, refugees, or even economic immigrants.

I can accept that you initially didn't know the roots of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. There's been a deliberate effort to mainstream the theory with conservatives over the past few years. Tucker Carlson mentioned it numerous times when he was at Fox News. But once you did find out where this conspiracy theory came from, weren't you curious? At what point do we become responsible for the beliefs we hold?

None of us are such original thinkers that we come up with our ideas all on our own.
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"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."

-- Isaiah 10:1-2
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Szdfan
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by Szdfan »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:49 pm So what should we be doing for our persecuted brethren in Nigeria? How does this affect what we do as Christians?

Does the Bible have any guidelines?
That’s a great question.

A lot has shifted in how the US treats asylum seekers and refugees since January and I’m not sure what options are still available here in the US for dealing with a crisis like this. Bootstrap, I know you’ve worked with helping refugee families in the past. What are you observing?
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"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."

-- Isaiah 10:1-2
Bootstrap
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by Bootstrap »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:54 pm
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:49 pm So what should we be doing for our persecuted brethren in Nigeria? How does this affect what we do as Christians?

Does the Bible have any guidelines?
That’s a great question.

A lot has shifted in how the US treats asylum seekers and refugees since January and I’m not sure what options are still available here in the US for dealing with a crisis like this. Bootstrap, I know you’ve worked with helping refugee families in the past. What are you observing?
Islamic extremism is regional in Nigeria, and not supported by the government or by most Nigerian Muslims. The South is majority Christian. Most Nigerians do not support Islamic terrorism, support seems to be ~10% among Nigerian Muslims.

Most Nigerian refugees choose to stay in Nigeria - there are over 3 million displaced Nigerians (IDPs) in Nigeria at this point. So I think the best things we can do are:

1. Pray.
2. Give to charities that work with IDPs in Nigeria.
3. Raise awareness with our government, as Open Doors does.

I did not screen this with the Christians I work with in Nigeria. I'll also ask their opinion.
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1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
JohnH
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by JohnH »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:48 pm I can accept that you initially didn't know the roots of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. There's been a deliberate effort to mainstream the theory with conservatives over the past few years. Tucker Carlson mentioned it numerous times when he was at Fox News. But once you did find out where this conspiracy theory came from, weren't you curious? At what point do we become responsible for the beliefs we hold?

None of us are such original thinkers that we come up with our ideas all on our own.
When you originally accused me of promoting neo nazi conspiracy theories, I made a decision to avoid learning anything about them and I continue to do so to this day. I don’t watch or listen to Carlson although occasionally other people send me clips of him.

My opinions on global population churn are entirely my own. I initially formed them circa 2001 when I was learning about massive displacements of people from their homelands into refugee camps, often the result of war or of corrupt governments replacing traditional title to lands to businesses or foreign nations to facilitate development. It became obvious to me this happens here in America and other first world nations, too.

Now, I’d like it if you’d stop accusing me of picking up some kind of conspiracy theory and would recommend you stop reading so much about conspiracy theories too. I don’t think global population churn is good, and what is happening present day is not “demographic change”.
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ohio jones
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by ohio jones »

Arguments about Great Replacement and related non-African matters can be taken to the thread on that subject.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6355
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Szdfan
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by Szdfan »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 8:15 pm
Szdfan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 4:54 pm
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 3:49 pm So what should we be doing for our persecuted brethren in Nigeria? How does this affect what we do as Christians?

Does the Bible have any guidelines?
That’s a great question.

A lot has shifted in how the US treats asylum seekers and refugees since January and I’m not sure what options are still available here in the US for dealing with a crisis like this. Bootstrap, I know you’ve worked with helping refugee families in the past. What are you observing?
Islamic extremism is regional in Nigeria, and not supported by the government or by most Nigerian Muslims. The South is majority Christian. Most Nigerians do not support Islamic terrorism, support seems to be ~10% among Nigerian Muslims.

Most Nigerian refugees choose to stay in Nigeria - there are over 3 million displaced Nigerians (IDPs) in Nigeria at this point. So I think the best things we can do are:

1. Pray.
2. Give to charities that work with IDPs in Nigeria.
3. Raise awareness with our government, as Open Doors does.

I did not screen this with the Christians I work with in Nigeria. I'll also ask their opinion.
Is there still any path for asylum in the US, or is that door currently closed?
0 x
"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."

-- Isaiah 10:1-2
joshuabgood
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by joshuabgood »

The church is also suffering in the USA. As CT documented, Iranian Christians are suffering, in watching the video I can't imagine how it feels.
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JohnH
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by JohnH »

“Not being able to live and work in the United States, the wealthiest country in the world” is not the same thing as “suffering”.
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joshuabgood
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by joshuabgood »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Jun 29, 2025 8:30 am “Not being able to live and work in the United States, the wealthiest country in the world” is not the same thing as “suffering”.
How about you watch the video.
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JohnH
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Re: The church suffering on african lands

Post by JohnH »

joshuabgood wrote: ↑Sun Jun 29, 2025 1:35 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Jun 29, 2025 8:30 am “Not being able to live and work in the United States, the wealthiest country in the world” is not the same thing as “suffering”.
How about you watch the video.
I did. It still has nothing at all do with gaining entry to the United States.
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