Tinfoil hat thought.
After getting kicked out of the White House Zman went to Macron and King Charles and walked away empty-handed. Now we see both Zman and Putin putting in for the cease-fire. I still think it's a big possibility that these two are working together in a massive con job to line their own pockets (remember the missing money) and when the money train stopped they've decided to bail and play ceasefire. It's a hideous possibility. Either way both leaders were using their own citizens as red shirts. Horrendous.
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Free Will Baptist <-> Anabaptist
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Tinfoil hat thought.
After getting kicked out of the White House Zman went to Macron and King Charles and walked away empty-handed. Now we see both Zman and Putin putting in for the cease-fire. I still think it's a big possibility that these two are working together in a massive con job to line their own pockets (remember the missing money) and when the money train stopped they've decided to bail and play ceasefire. It's a hideous possibility. Either way both leaders were using their own citizens as red shirts. Horrendous.
I think you have a fertile imagination! Makes me want to use an expletive, but I will refrain.
JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Mar 13, 2025 12:46 pm
Tinfoil hat thought.
After getting kicked out of the White House Zman went to Macron and King Charles and walked away empty-handed. Now we see both Zman and Putin putting in for the cease-fire. I still think it's a big possibility that these two are working together in a massive con job to line their own pockets (remember the missing money) and when the money train stopped they've decided to bail and play ceasefire. It's a hideous possibility. Either way both leaders were using their own citizens as red shirts. Horrendous.
We had a saying that money talks and, well, something else walks. The money is talking now. Zelenskyyyy has realized that shiploads of U.S. money by the billion aren't coming in anymore. Putin has realized he can ignore Europe, Europeans, and their endless talk (while he still sells them oil and gas), but that Trump means business.
Trump just put major sanctions on Russia by removing the exception that allowed Europeans to do business with Russian banks to buy gas and oil.
Here's my tin foil hat thought: Putin says that a cease fire must "remove the initial original causes of the crisis." But aren't those the same justifications he has given for invading Ukraine all along? I do hope this leads to peace, and I will pray for peace. But I think these are the "original causes" Putin is probably talking about.
GPT summary below ...
According to Vladimir Putin, what was the original cause of the Ukraine invasion?
1. NATO Expansion & Security Concerns
Putin's Claim:
- Russia viewed NATO’s eastward expansion as a direct threat to its security.
- He accused the West of breaking promises (from the 1990s) that NATO would not expand toward Russia’s borders.
- He argued that Ukraine’s potential NATO membership would allow Western forces to station missiles near Russia, threatening its security.
Counterpoints:
- NATO has never had a formal agreement not to expand.
- Ukraine was not on the verge of joining NATO in 2022—its membership was not even close to being approved.
- Some analysts argue that Putin used NATO as a pretext, but his real goal was to prevent Ukraine from becoming more Western-aligned.
2. "Denazification" of Ukraine
Putin's Claim:
- He described Ukraine as being run by neo-Nazis, despite its democratically elected Jewish president, Volodymyr Zelensky.
- He falsely claimed that Ukraine was committing genocide against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, particularly in Donetsk and Luhansk.
Counterpoints:
- There is no evidence of genocide in Ukraine.
- While there are far-right groups in Ukraine (like in many countries), the far-right received very little electoral support.
- Many see the "denazification" argument as propaganda aimed at justifying the invasion to Russian citizens.
3. Protecting Russian-Speaking Ukrainians
Putin's Claim:
- He argued that Ukraine was oppressing and attacking Russian-speaking people, especially in Donetsk and Luhansk (eastern Ukraine).
- He claimed that Ukraine’s 2014 revolution (which removed pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych) was a Western-backed coup, leading to violence against Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
Counterpoints:
- While language laws in Ukraine have prioritized Ukrainian over Russian, there has been no systematic oppression of Russian speakers.
- Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians actively oppose the invasion.
- Ukraine’s military was not attacking Donetsk and Luhansk civilians—it was fighting Russia-backed separatists who took control in 2014.
4. The 2014 Euromaidan Protests & Crimea
Putin's Claim:
- He argues that Western interference in Ukraine led to the 2014 Euromaidan protests, which overthrew pro-Russian President Yanukovych.
- He claims that Crimea (which Russia annexed in 2014) was always historically Russian, and the West was trying to pull Ukraine away from its Russian roots.
Counterpoints:
- The Euromaidan protests were not a Western coup but a popular uprising against a corrupt pro-Russian leader.
- Putin did not recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty, instead treating it as part of Russia’s "historical lands."
- Crimea was illegally annexed by Russia in 2014, violating international law.
5. A Greater Russian Nationalist Vision
Putin's Claim:
- He denies Ukraine’s legitimacy as an independent country, arguing that Ukraine is historically Russian and that Ukrainians and Russians are "one people."
- He rejects Ukraine’s right to choose its alliances (like with the EU and NATO).
Counterpoints:
- Ukraine has a long history of independence, with distinct culture, language, and identity separate from Russia.
- Many Ukrainians, even those who speak Russian, oppose Putin and identify strongly as Ukrainian.
- Putin’s argument reflects an imperialistic vision, seeking to restore Russian control over former Soviet territories.
Conclusion: Putin’s Shifting Justifications
Putin has changed his justifications multiple times since 2022. While he initially focused on security concerns (NATO), he later emphasized historical and ideological claims (denying Ukraine’s sovereignty). Western analysts widely view these justifications as excuses for a war aimed at reasserting Russian dominance over Ukraine.
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1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Mar 13, 2025 12:46 pm
Tinfoil hat thought.
After getting kicked out of the White House Zman went to Macron and King Charles and walked away empty-handed. Now we see both Zman and Putin putting in for the cease-fire. I still think it's a big possibility that these two are working together in a massive con job to line their own pockets (remember the missing money) and when the money train stopped they've decided to bail and play ceasefire. It's a hideous possibility. Either way both leaders were using their own citizens as red shirts. Horrendous.
We had a saying that money talks and, well, something else walks. The money is talking now. Zelenskyyyy has realized that shiploads of U.S. money by the billion aren't coming in anymore. Putin has realized he can ignore Europe, Europeans, and their endless talk (while he still sells them oil and gas), but that Trump means business.
Trump just put major sanctions on Russia by removing the exception that allowed Europeans to do business with Russian banks to buy gas and oil.
When you have a strong leader, peace is possible.
I have not seen this info on any major news outlets. Do you have a source other than Twitter?
President Vladimir V. Putin on Thursday made it clear he was in no hurry to agree to a cease-fire and wanted to continue negotiating with President Trump, telling reporters that Russia was in favor of a 30-day truce — but with numerous conditions.
His remarks, at a news conference in Moscow, came as U.S. officials were in Russia to discuss the cease-fire proposal that Ukraine has already agreed to.
“The idea itself is the right one, and we definitely support it,” Mr. Putin said. “But there are questions that we need to discuss, and I think that we need to talk them through with our American colleagues and partners.”
Those questions, Mr. Putin said, included whether Kyiv would be able to continue receiving arms shipments during the 30-day truce, and how the cease-fire would be monitored and enforced.
Mr. Putin also said Russia would not allow Ukrainian forces occupying land in Russia’s Kursk region to peacefully withdraw, and that the Ukrainian leadership could instead order them “to simply surrender.”
It was the first time that Mr. Putin had publicly addressed the cease-fire offer. While his conditions may be impossible for Ukraine to accept, he did not repeat his onerous demand from last year that a cease-fire would depend on Ukraine’s withdrawing from the four Ukrainian regions that Russia had declared as its own but did not fully control.
0 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
