Are We There Yet?

[Valerie]

2 Timothy 3:1-13
King James Version
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

[Valerie]

2 Timothy 3:13
King James Version
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

[Valerie]

Considering a couple of the passages referring to days before Christ's Second Advent-

Why, & What- causes and will cause "people" to get worse?

[Valerie]

Jesus said:

Matthew 24:12
New King James Version
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

I often think from a historic lens. Media today convinces us that things are more polarized than ever before, people are more selfish or hateful or evil than ever before. But if you look back even over the past century or two, things have been way worse. Look back to the Roman Empire under which this epistle was written, and you realize we have a long way to go before people get worse than they were back then.

[Bootstrap]

Considering a couple of the passages referring to days before Christ's Second Advent-

Why, & What- causes and will cause "people" to get worse?

When Christians promote people who fit these descriptions as celebrities we should all support, I think that is one cause. It is a rot on our basic morality. When we turn away from the Bible and the Kingdom of God, and expect salvation by other means, I think that is another. When we no longer accept biblical morality, I think that is a third.

Do we really seek first the Kingdom of God? Is our thought life really rooted in the Bible and Jesus? Or are we caught up primarily in whatever comes across our social media feeds and our preferred media? Have political figures become religious figures in our mind? Do we see politics as the real battleground for Christianity, or do we live out Christianity in our lives together as we seek the Kingdom?

[ohio jones]

I often think from a historic lens. Media today convinces us that things are more polarized than ever before, people are more selfish or hateful or evil than ever before. But if you look back even over the past century or two, things have been way worse. Look back to the Roman Empire under which this epistle was written, and you realize we have a long way to go before people get worse than they were back then.

Each time in history is bad in its own way. Compared to any era you choose, some things today are worse and some are better. Even in our own day, each region of the world has more problems with some things on the list than others.

So is it the last days? Yes, and has been for nearly 2000 years. It is only the fact that God is longsuffering -- "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" -- that holds back his judgment.

As Peter says, "since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." In the thread on Authority we are talking about Christocentrism, and that is the key here as well: are we focusing on Jesus, or on the problems of the world around us? If we see those problems through Jesus, we have hope enough to share and no reason to despair.

[Valerie]

Considering a couple of the passages referring to days before Christ's Second Advent-

Why, & What- causes and will cause "people" to get worse?

When Christians promote people who fit these descriptions as celebrities we should all support, I think that is one cause. It is a rot on our basic morality. When we turn away from the Bible and the Kingdom of God, and expect salvation by other means, I think that is another. When we no longer accept biblical morality, I think that is a third.

Do we really seek first the Kingdom of God? Is our thought life really rooted in the Bible and Jesus? Or are we caught up primarily in whatever comes across our social media feeds and our preferred media? Have political figures become religious figures in our mind? Do we see politics as the real battleground for Christianity, or do we live out Christianity in our lives together as we seek the Kingdom?

This was not supposed to be about politics boot- those passages describe society in general as a 'sign' for us not for you to blame Christians for society being the way it is. It seems your implying that Christians during an election year are choosing a candidate who they confess is no "pastor" but who had policies they agreed with more than the other (who is no pastor either). I know that you believe in voting so you too, as a Christian have to make a judgement on a candidate. That was not what this thread was about- I don't get from your interests that your only focus is the kingdom of God but you seem very interested in politics and Christians that believe as you do that we have a responsibility to chose- are not ignoring the kingdom of God, but their love & concern for people affected by decisions & policies IS part of serving the Lord- we've legalized a lot of sin as you know which does affect the souls of men-
This was not about that-
I get a lot of older (&younger) people I come face to face with who seem to be in lament over how things are now compared to their younger years- as if in disbelief. My question in the thread are what will cause people to get to this condition of soul that the passages above describe-

[Valerie]

I often think from a historic lens. Media today convinces us that things are more polarized than ever before, people are more selfish or hateful or evil than ever before. But if you look back even over the past century or two, things have been way worse. Look back to the Roman Empire under which this epistle was written, and you realize we have a long way to go before people get worse than they were back then.

Well so they have gotten better then you think? Around the world,? So then these passages do not describe people today? I think that the majority of Christians I know feel like it pretty well describes people today - yes it will get worse and "the falling away" hasn't apparently fully taken place.

[Valerie]

I often think from a historic lens. Media today convinces us that things are more polarized than ever before, people are more selfish or hateful or evil than ever before. But if you look back even over the past century or two, things have been way worse. Look back to the Roman Empire under which this epistle was written, and you realize we have a long way to go before people get worse than they were back then.

Each time in history is bad in its own way. Compared to any era you choose, some things today are worse and some are better. Even in our own day, each region of the world has more problems with some things on the list than others.

So is it the last days? Yes, and has been for nearly 2000 years. It is only the fact that God is longsuffering -- "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" -- that holds back his judgment.

As Peter says, "since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." In the thread on Authority we are talking about Christocentrism, and that is the key here as well: are we focusing on Jesus, or on the problems of the world around us? If we see those problems through Jesus, we have hope enough to share and no reason to despair.

Thank you, I like this- this is really where we can be used in the lives of discouraged people. The Lord is tarrying out of love!