Alex Jones...

[Josh]

Ken,

You have made it clear you think politics is a good pursuit and the right way to reform society. Conservative Anabaptists don’t. We will be in conflict about this forever, because when talking about any social ill, you see the solution as political manoeuvrings. We see the solution as souls submitting their lives to Jesus. We are not the same.

[Ken]

Ken,

You have made it clear you think politics is a good pursuit and the right way to reform society. Conservative Anabaptists don’t. We will be in conflict about this forever, because when talking about any social ill, you see the solution as political manoeuvrings. We see the solution as souls submitting their lives to Jesus. We are not the same.

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

But don't kid yourself. You constantly advocate for or against political change here on a wide variety of topics. Adultery, Abortion, Single parenting? You want to criminalize it and even call for the death penalty. Those are political positions albeit extreme ones. Gay marriage? You want to outlaw it. That is a political position. Gun control? You oppose it. That is a political position. Voting? You advocate for all manner of restrictions to make it harder for people to vote. That is a political position. I could go on and on. If you were as apolitical as you think you are, you wouldn't have positions or opinions on any of those topics.

[ken_sylvania]

Ken,

You have made it clear you think politics is a good pursuit and the right way to reform society. Conservative Anabaptists don’t. We will be in conflict about this forever, because when talking about any social ill, you see the solution as political manoeuvrings. We see the solution as souls submitting their lives to Jesus. We are not the same.

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

But don't kid yourself. You constantly advocate for or against political change here on a wide variety of topics. Adultery, Abortion, Single parenting? You want to criminalize it and even call for the death penalty. Those are political positions albeit extreme ones. Gay marriage? You want to outlaw it. That is a political position. Gun control? You oppose it. That is a political position. Voting? You advocate for all manner of restrictions to make it harder for people to vote. That is a political position. I could go on and on. If you were as apolitical as you think you are, you wouldn't have positions or opinions on any of those topics.

With all due respect Ken, you are misrepresenting what Josh has said about these issues. He has made it very clear that he is not calling for the US to change the law on these issues.

[Josh]

Ken,

You have made it clear you think politics is a good pursuit and the right way to reform society. Conservative Anabaptists don’t. We will be in conflict about this forever, because when talking about any social ill, you see the solution as political manoeuvrings. We see the solution as souls submitting their lives to Jesus. We are not the same.

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

But don't kid yourself. You constantly advocate for or against political change here on a wide variety of topics. Adultery, Abortion, Single parenting? You want to criminalize it and even call for the death penalty. Those are political positions albeit extreme ones. Gay marriage? You want to outlaw it. That is a political position. Gun control? You oppose it. That is a political position. Voting? You advocate for all manner of restrictions to make it harder for people to vote. That is a political position. I could go on and on. If you were as apolitical as you think you are, you wouldn't have positions or opinions on any of those topics.

I haven’t actually advocated for any political change.

The wages of sin is death, and that includes adultery. God’s perfect law made that very clear to us. Adultery, sodomy, fornication (including people who choose to fornicate resulting in pregnancy) all lead to both physical, spiritual, and eternal death. Only Jesus’ grace can save the sinner from that death.

I think self defence is lawful and also guaranteed by our Constitution and that it’s wrong to deny lawful citizens their right to defend themselves. I think it’s extremely disordered and unlawful to give violent criminals more rights than innocent homeowners protecting themselves. Even so, as a Christian, I call my fellow believers to lay down their God-given right to bear arms and answer Jesus’ call to entrust our lives to him.

Gay “marriage” is not marriage, and marriage is properly the domain of the church, not the state. The state pretending that two men engaging in sodomy is “marriage” does not make it so.

Abortion is murder and is wrong. God speaks of those who spill innocent blood. They, too, will face eternal death and punishment. Jesus’ grace shows a way out for the abortionist and for the woman who has sought an abortion; “the vilest sinner who truly believes, that moment from Jesus a pardon receives”. Nonetheless, the state has a God-given duty to prosecute and punish murderers.

My political position may be summed up as “Come and follow Jesus.” Jesus is King. That is indeed a political statement a a challenge to earthly kings and kingdoms. The kings of this world have often been offended by Jesus’ lordship, even though soon “every knee will bow and every tongue confess”.

[Ken]

I haven’t actually advocated for any political change.

Politics is equal parts advocating for change and advocating against change.

Take abortion. For decades the pro-life side argued for change and the pro-choice side argued against change. Now the positions are reversed.

When Republicans are in power, many conservatives argue for change such as deregulation of environmental standards and liberals argue against it.
When Democrats are in power the positions are reversed. Liberals argue for changes in environmental regulations and conservatives argue against it.

When Republicans are in power conservatives argue for repeal of the Affordable Care Act and Democrats oppose it. When Democrats are in power, liberals argue for changes to the Affordable Care Act and conservatives oppose it.

Both parties have long lists of changes they want to see and equally long lists of changes proposed by the other side that they oppose.

[Grace]

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

But don't kid yourself. You constantly advocate for or against political change here on a wide variety of topics. Adultery, Abortion, Single parenting? You want to criminalize it and even call for the death penalty. Those are political positions albeit extreme ones. Gay marriage? You want to outlaw it. That is a political position. Gun control? You oppose it. That is a political position. Voting? You advocate for all manner of restrictions to make it harder for people to vote. That is a political position. I could go on and on. If you were as apolitical as you think you are, you wouldn't have positions or opinions on any of those topics.

Be glad I am not a moderator. From the board guidlines:

Use I statements. Speak for yourself and don't decide what someone else is meaning to say or exaggerate what someone else posts.
Do not state that someone else is wrong. State your own thoughts and opinions.

[Bootstrap]

Ken,

You have made it clear you think politics is a good pursuit and the right way to reform society. Conservative Anabaptists don’t. We will be in conflict about this forever, because when talking about any social ill, you see the solution as political manoeuvrings. We see the solution as souls submitting their lives to Jesus. We are not the same.

Not written to me, but I'd like to respond.

I'm not a conservative Anabaptist, but I am a Mennonite, and I do believe submitting our lives to Jesus is more important than what politicians do. i'm trying to relate that to this thread on Alex Jones. Is there a conservative Anabaptist approach to Alex Jones? Or a way that those who submit to Jesus would view Alex Jones that is different? I notice that some conservative Anabaptists disagree with you here.

Can you flesh out the conservative Anabaptist take on Alex Jones?

[Robert]

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

But don't kid yourself. You constantly advocate for or against political change here on a wide variety of topics. Adultery, Abortion, Single parenting? You want to criminalize it and even call for the death penalty. Those are political positions albeit extreme ones. Gay marriage? You want to outlaw it. That is a political position. Gun control? You oppose it. That is a political position. Voting? You advocate for all manner of restrictions to make it harder for people to vote. That is a political position. I could go on and on. If you were as apolitical as you think you are, you wouldn't have positions or opinions on any of those topics.

Be glad I am not a moderator. From the board guidlines:

Use I statements. Speak for yourself and don't decide what someone else is meaning to say or exaggerate what someone else posts.
Do not state that someone else is wrong. State your own thoughts and opinions.

You beat me to it. I was very much considering warnings to both Josh and Ken. Bootstrap was right on the line also. Consider this an unofficial warning. More You statements will immediately get an official warning.

[Bootstrap]

If Alex did this to you after you lost a child to a mass shooting, I don't think it would matter to you whether it was political or not. I think you would identify it as emotional/verbal abuse.

No, I wouldn’t. I would identify it as a crank who believes in conspiracy theories.

Sometimes conspiracy theories are just innocent crank opinions.

Sometimes conspiracy theories drive a lot of hatred and violence. Look at the KKK. Look at Hitler. Look at Communist Soviet propaganda. Alex Jones deliberately spread lies against these parents. He knew they were lies. He knew that the parents were suffering consequences because they told him so, and their lawyers told him so. He kept doing that. He kept making money and kept promoting his show with these outrageous claims.

To me, that goes beyond the harmless crank kind of thing.

[Robert]

I think the difference between us is that you see political conspiracies everywhere. Where I do not.

There has been so many "political" conspiracies that have become fact the past 3+ years.