War in Gaza

[Ken]

When it comes to Christians in Israel or Gaza, or other war-torn areas, I think the best thing to do is flee the area. The New Testament tells Christians similar things in various hostile situations. There are political situations where it just doesn't work to try and live out your faith as a Christian. It's not an easy thing to do to leave one's home, friends, work, and all that is familiar, but what else can you really do without becoming caught up in the violence.

Virtually all Christians have Gaza have done that. There used to be about 1,300 before this latest war, and now there are even less. The last few churches also have been destroyed.

I find the idea of Arab Christians being forced out of Israel and the Holy Land somewhat offensive.

As do I.

More offensive than any other Arabs being forced out of their homes?

[mike]

Virtually all Christians have Gaza have done that. There used to be about 1,300 before this latest war, and now there are even less. The last few churches also have been destroyed.

I find the idea of Arab Christians being forced out of Israel and the Holy Land somewhat offensive.

As do I.

More offensive than any other Arabs being forced out of their homes?

Not necessarily. I didn't bring up the idea of forcing people out of their homes, Josh did. I was talking specifically about Christians who are in continuously war-torn areas following what Jesus repeatedly recommended for his followers, which was to flee to escape persecution or avoid a horrific future conflict (case in point, Christians in Jerusalem prior to the AD 70 Roman siege).

[Ernie]

I don’t hate Netanyahu. I do think he is a warmonger who has done much to hurt the cause of peace. And my opinion on that is almost entirely based on things (Jewish) Israelis have told me.

It’s possible to believe Hamas is very bad but also think Netanyahu is bad and is not a good leader. Even now, the ICC wants him tried for war crimes. That’s a rather serious thing!

Many Augustinians don't really care what ICC thinks so I doubt mentioning the organization here on MN will make much difference in their minds.

You might want to rethink that rather facile and pejorative logic. I am not an Augustinian, I am a non-resistant Anabaptist and yet I think the ICC and it’s pronouncements are about as weighty and impactful as those made by my cranky uncle. The ICC is a joke and being Anabaptist/non-Augustinian does mean ipso facto support for that dog and pony show.

I think you might have missed my point. Most Augustinians support involvement in using the sword and civil coercion. So Augustinians and folks of other religions that support the use of the sword and civil coercion need to figure out how they are going to restrain evil in the world. As an ambassador of the kingdom of heaven, I have no say in whether there should be an ICC or not or whether it should be recognized, etc. I was simply calling attention to the fact that most Augustinians (in America) don't have much or any appreciation for ICC. So to use them as a barometer on war crimes, isn't going to make much difference. But as you point out, it won't make much difference to non-Augustinians either, who also don't have much use for the ICC.

[Josh]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

[GaryK]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

I'm curious if you feel the same about the ICC's arrest warrant for Putin, involving his responsibility for war crimes, issued on March 17, 2023.

[ken_sylvania]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

Quite the neighborhood you live in!

[Ken]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

Here is the complete list of all 54 people indicted by the ICC since 2005. Perhaps you can tell us which ones were illegitimate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... inal_Court

What is your answer for holding leaders accountable for war crimes and acts of genocide within their own country? Do you have some other alternative to the ICC in mind? Or do you think leaders should be free to act with impunity and never be held accountable?

[Ernie]

Believe it or not, Israel supposedly made a tragic mistake, at least according to Netanyahu.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/2 ... e-00160053

[Josh]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

I'm curious if you feel the same about the ICC's arrest warrant for Putin, involving his responsibility for war crimes, issued on March 17, 2023.

At this point, yes, I would say it seems reasonable.

[Josh]

I would respect the ICC’s judgments just like I respect the judgments of my local judge who has adjudicated some of my neighbours as being speeders, thieves, drunk drivers and so on.

Here is the complete list of all 54 people indicted by the ICC since 2005. Perhaps you can tell us which ones were illegitimate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... inal_Court

What is your answer for holding leaders accountable for war crimes and acts of genocide within their own country? Do you have some other alternative to the ICC in mind? Or do you think leaders should be free to act with impunity and never be held accountable?

Perhaps you can re-read my statement?