Poll: Daniel Perry - Should he have been pardoned?

[Ken]

Let’s talk about Marlyn Mosby?
Do you think she was wrongly convicted?
Has she shown remorse?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... lyn-mosby/

The left is up to it to.

Did Marlyn Mosby murder anyone in a fit of racist rage? While seeking to groom young girls online for statutory rape? Are we talking apples to apples here?

From the article you linked to it appears she is guilty of two counts of fairly minor mortgage fraud. Same exact thing as Trump but on a vastly smaller scale. So in a just world she gets her 20 months and Trump for a massively larger scale fraud gets 10x longer sentence and gets out sometime in 2035 with good behavior.

It is not just a mortgage document issue. It is COVID relief money fraud, she made a withdrawal from her public pension fund because of claimed loss of income due to COVID.

Only there was not any, and it was not true.

Should we expect better from those who we entrust with government office? And a lawyer? She is the progressive poster child right now, and I suspect the machine sees her as a future governor.

I'm not claiming she should be pardoned and as far as I know, she hasn't been pardoned.

But seriously, she took out some of HER OWN MONEY from a 403(b) retirement plan and avoided paying the normal penalty for doing that? For which she hasn't actually been pardoned. We are putting that in the same category as pardoning a unrepentant racially-motivated murderer? That is your "both sides do it" example?

[Josh]

I'm not claiming she should be pardoned and as far as I know, she hasn't been pardoned.

But seriously, she took out some of HER OWN MONEY from a 403(b) retirement plan and avoided paying the normal penalty for doing that? That's a Federal case? We are putting that in the same category as racially-motivated murder?

When you withdraw from a 403(b), it normally has a 20% withholding on it (the penalty is only 10%, so the 20% covers both the penalty and the extra taxes you might have to pay). There are limited exceptions to not having this withholding and you have to explicitly ask for it.

Some of these exceptions were during COVID and had narrow qualification. She, apparently, decided to claim she was exempt from this withholding. That is indeed a Federal crime. It's sort of like ticking the box on a W-4 thay says "I'm exempt from withholding" when you actually aren't.

Generally speaking it's a lot better to not try to claim exemptions from withholding and then file a proper tax return etc. where you will get refunds on whatever you are due anyway. The federal government takes withholding fraud really seriously for some reason.

[Ken]

I'm not claiming she should be pardoned and as far as I know, she hasn't been pardoned.

But seriously, she took out some of HER OWN MONEY from a 403(b) retirement plan and avoided paying the normal penalty for doing that? That's a Federal case? We are putting that in the same category as racially-motivated murder?

When you withdraw from a 403(b), it normally has a 20% withholding on it (the penalty is only 10%, so the 20% covers both the penalty and the extra taxes you might have to pay). There are limited exceptions to not having this withholding and you have to explicitly ask for it.

Some of these exceptions were during COVID and had narrow qualification. She, apparently, decided to claim she was exempt from this withholding. That is indeed a Federal crime. It's sort of like ticking the box on a W-4 thay says "I'm exempt from withholding" when you actually aren't.

Generally speaking it's a lot better to not try to claim exemptions from withholding and then file a proper tax return etc. where you will get refunds on whatever you are due anyway. The federal government takes withholding fraud really seriously for some reason.

Right. But I mean, so what? She still owed taxes on the withdrawal, just 9 months later when she filed. That is comparable to murder?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Did Marlyn Mosby murder anyone in a fit of racist rage? While seeking to groom young girls online for statutory rape? Are we talking apples to apples here?

From the article you linked to it appears she is guilty of two counts of fairly minor mortgage fraud. Same exact thing as Trump but on a vastly smaller scale. So in a just world she gets her 20 months and Trump for a massively larger scale fraud gets 10x longer sentence and gets out sometime in 2035 with good behavior.

It is not just a mortgage document issue. It is COVID relief money fraud, she made a withdrawal from her public pension fund because of claimed loss of income due to COVID.

Only there was not any, and it was not true.

Should we expect better from those who we entrust with government office? And a lawyer? She is the progressive poster child right now, and I suspect the machine sees her as a future governor.

I'm not claiming she should be pardoned and as far as I know, she hasn't been pardoned.

But seriously, she took out some of HER OWN MONEY from a 403(b) retirement plan and avoided paying the normal penalty for doing that? For which she hasn't actually been pardoned. We are putting that in the same category as pardoning a unrepentant racially-motivated murderer? That is your "both sides do it" example?

You clearly do not understand how a municipal pension in Maryland works. That pension money is not hers until she retires, period. I had one too, and mine was structured the same way. It is NOT your money, and it belongs to the trustees until you retire. You can borrow against it, and the only way you can get cash from it is to prove hardship or retire. It is not self directed as a typical 403b is. The trustees choose the investment method. That it is “just a 403b “ is what her defense would like you to believe. The federal court verdict basically says no, you can’t withdraw without proving hardship. That is why she was convicted in both cases.

She is claiming in the press that she is being persecuted became She is black, and “progressive “. She is being prosecuted because she broke the law, is a lawyer, and cannot plead ignorance. We need to get rid of corrupt public officials. The court bent over backwards, including granting a change of venue, but still a jury finds her guilty. She simply can’t admit she was wrong. Instead she pulls the race card.

Show me one time she brought a BGF member to trial? The current DA has locked up quite a number of them. The BGF is a leftist organization. She just would not being them to trial.

The BGF is far more dangerous of a leftist organization than ANTIFA ever was.

[Szdfan]

Baltimore has a long history of corrupt politicians. I was a resident when Major Sheila Dixon was indicted (the first and second time). After I moved to Colorado, Major Catherine Pugh was arrested and pled guilty to corruption charges surrounding self-published children's books (I'm not making this up).

Of course, Spiro Agnew is from Maryland, so what do you expect?

[Ken]

It is not just a mortgage document issue. It is COVID relief money fraud, she made a withdrawal from her public pension fund because of claimed loss of income due to COVID.

Only there was not any, and it was not true.

Should we expect better from those who we entrust with government office? And a lawyer? She is the progressive poster child right now, and I suspect the machine sees her as a future governor.

I'm not claiming she should be pardoned and as far as I know, she hasn't been pardoned.

But seriously, she took out some of HER OWN MONEY from a 403(b) retirement plan and avoided paying the normal penalty for doing that? For which she hasn't actually been pardoned. We are putting that in the same category as pardoning a unrepentant racially-motivated murderer? That is your "both sides do it" example?

You clearly do not understand how a municipal pension in Maryland works. That pension money is not hers until she retires, period. I had one too, and mine was structured the same way. It is NOT your money, and it belongs to the trustees until you retire. You can borrow against it, and the only way you can get cash from it is to prove hardship or retire. It is not self directed as a typical 403b is. The trustees choose the investment method. That it is “just a 403b “ is what her defense would like you to believe. The federal court verdict basically says no, you can’t withdraw without proving hardship. That is why she was convicted in both cases.

She didn't withdraw from the state pension. She withdrew her own funds from the city's supplementary deferred compensation plan which technically is a 457(b) plan not a 403(b) plan but operates very similar to a 401(k) or 403(b). https://www.bcers.org/deferred-compensation-plan/

I'm not arguing that she should be pardoned. I couldn't care less. I just disagree with the notion that someone who fraudulently withdrew her own funds from a deferred comp plan and hasn't actually been pardoned for it is the same thing as Abbott pardoning a racist murderer and demonstrates that "both sides do it"

[Judas Maccabeus]

Baltimore has a long history of corrupt politicians. I was a resident when Major Sheila Dixon was indicted (the first and second time). After I moved to Colorado, Major Catherine Pugh was arrested and pled guilty to corruption charges surrounding self-published children's books (I'm not making this up).

Of course, Spiro Agnew is from Maryland, so what do you expect?

Healthy Holly. They are collectors items now. Very rare, although she allegedly sold a couple hundred thousand.

[Jazman]

I'm not arguing that she should be pardoned. I couldn't care less. I just disagree with the notion that someone who fraudulently withdrew her own funds from a deferred comp plan and hasn't actually been pardoned for it is the same thing as Abbott pardoning a racist murderer and demonstrates that "both sides do it"

So far, nothing analogous to a governor pardoning a convicted murderer... Not too surprised. The tribal myth/complete inversion of reality was stated earlier (pg 1) but finding real evidence to prop up that narrative is proving hard...

I think what Andrew Egger said last week regarding this case might explain it a bit...
"It might be a tired exercise at this point, but imagine the jerseys had been swapped. Say Perry’s resentment had been directed, not at Black Lives Matter protesters, but at the Stop the Steal protests that popped up around the nation between November 2020 and January 2021. Say he’d openly, repeatedly fantasized about killing right-wing protesters in texts with friends. Say he’d driven his car into a group of those protesters. Say he’d shot one dead.

Or make it less abstract. Say that, at the moment Daniel Perry had revved his car into the group Garrett Foster was marching with, Foster hadn’t approached Perry to try to speak with him. Say he’d seen Perry had a gun, reasonably concluded that the man who had just driven into a crowd might be inclined to use it, and immediately shot him [Perry].

Had Foster shot Perry, his stand-your-ground self-defense claim would have been far less tenuous than the one Perry made. But can you imagine Gov. Abbott coming to his defense? Issuing him a pardon? A Black Lives Matter marcher? Not in a million years. For way, way too many Republicans, political violence has become a matter of shirts and skins." - Andrew Egger

Now, it's my understanding there's few if any Republicans on Mennonet... but I wonder if the bolded line is something we're struggling with as well?

[Josh]

Had Foster shot Perry, his stand-your-ground self-defense claim would have been far less tenuous than the one Perry made. But can you imagine Gov. Abbott coming to his defense? Issuing him a pardon? A Black Lives Matter marcher? Not in a million years. For way, way too many Republicans, political violence has become a matter of shirts and skins."[/i] - Andrew Egger

Now, it's my understanding there's few if any Republicans on Mennonet... but I wonder if the bolded line is something we're struggling with as well?

Perhaps some of us have trouble feeling moral indignation that a left-wing protester at a violent protester (BLM protests were quite violent) walking around with AK rifle ended up getting himself into a violent conflict.

The correct perspective is that all people involved needed to repent, lay down their arms, and follow Jesus. A key difference in the genuine Christian/Anabaptist perspective is that we don't get busy trying to decide "which side" was more morally justified. The simple fact is that everyone at that protest was looking for a fight and itching for violence. If they weren't, they wouldn't have all been armed.

When someone decides to take up political violence and choose sides, they are inviting political violence from those on the opposite side from them. As far as your assertion that somehow the right gets away with violence and the left doesn't... I believe you are simply blinded because of your political affiliations, which are always revealed in the conspiratorial-level thinking "the other side is killing people left and right but MY side is pure, good, and doesn't get away with anything bad!"

[Ken]

Had Foster shot Perry, his stand-your-ground self-defense claim would have been far less tenuous than the one Perry made. But can you imagine Gov. Abbott coming to his defense? Issuing him a pardon? A Black Lives Matter marcher? Not in a million years. For way, way too many Republicans, political violence has become a matter of shirts and skins."[/i] - Andrew Egger

Now, it's my understanding there's few if any Republicans on Mennonet... but I wonder if the bolded line is something we're struggling with as well?

Perhaps some of us have trouble feeling moral indignation that a left-wing protester at a violent protester (BLM protests were quite violent) walking around with AK rifle ended up getting himself into a violent conflict.

The correct perspective is that all people involved needed to repent, lay down their arms, and follow Jesus. A key difference in the genuine Christian/Anabaptist perspective is that we don't get busy trying to decide "which side" was more morally justified. The simple fact is that everyone at that protest was looking for a fight and itching for violence. If they weren't, they wouldn't have all been armed.

When someone decides to take up political violence and choose sides, they are inviting political violence from those on the opposite side from them. As far as your assertion that somehow the right gets away with violence and the left doesn't... I believe you are simply blinded because of your political affiliations, which are always revealed in the conspiratorial-level thinking "the other side is killing people left and right but MY side is pure, good, and doesn't get away with anything bad!"

There was absolutely no violence that day in Austin other than what Daniel Perry brought to it. No one took up political violence in Austin except Daniel Perry. In fact, blaming BLM protests for being violent was one of excuses that Daniel Perry's attorneys tried to use in his defense. However it was shown in court and admitted by the defense that there was absolutely no violence in Austin that day until Daniel Perry arrived and started shooting: https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/10 ... protestor/

So again, a perfect illustration of straw-man reasoning. One might say that since there was there were violent right-wing protests at Charlottesville and on 1/6 that makes it justified for anyone to drive up to any right-wing protest and shoot people. By your logic it would be OK to drive up to any random Republican rally and gun people down since there were Republicans engaged in political violence on 1/6.

I find it shocking that an Anabaptist would find excuses for the intentional murder of peaceful protestors exercising their constitutional rights.