MennoNet and Genealogy

[Neto]

Russian Mennonites (or people married to one) tend to like to store their info in "Grandma Online".

This is a site that is specifically about people from Dutch Mennonite heritage.
So also the Mennonite History and Genealogy FaceBook group, of which I am a member. I'm sure I have a number on GMOL (GrandMa OnLine), but I do not have a subscription. All of my ancestors are Plautdietsch, so as I say, "I don't have as man ancestors as most people". (Because a lot of them are the same people...) I reckon it's much the same for people of Swiss Brethren background. (Our daughter & her husband are distantly related to one another around 6 different ways, and not only am I not of any Swiss Brethren extraction at all, but this is only from looking in the 'Raber Book".)

I have yet to meet any Russian Mennonite person that refers to themselves as "Dutch Mennonites". Amongst Holdeman circles, everyone refers to themselves as Russian Mennonites if they want to get into ethnic background details.

Another thought - Well, we DID meet, that time you came to Berlin.....

Then along a different line, I also say I'm Dutch Mennonite when wanting to make a distinctive reference to the Dutch "baptism-minded" as distinct from the Swiss Brethren heritage and tradition. And, there were also Swiss Mennonites in Russia, and they were not Plautdietsch people. So 'Dutch Mennonite' is an ethnic description that goes back farther than does "Russian Mennonite", which I do not consider an accurate ethnic description. (And, also even farther back than is the Plautdietsch identity.) I would have to go back and find all of my uses of 'Dutch Mennonite' to be sure this is accurate, but I THINK I use the term in these two ways or for these two distinctions: as an Ethnic reference, and as a theological reference (that is, as distinct from Swiss Brethren tradition). Many people, however, use even just "Mennonite" as an ethnic reference. For me, it is primarily a theological reference. I realize that many consider it a cultural reference, but since there are very significant cultural differences within that general category, I choose to use more exact terminology. It's a bit like someone saying they are 'Cherokee', or 'Osage', as opposed to saying that they are 'American Indian', or 'Native American'. (Then there are also language family distinctions as well.)

[steve-in-kville]

Some time ago, I traced my dad's side back to the late 1500's while still in the Palestine region of Germany. At some point we were of the Lutheran faith once here in the Lebanon/Lancaster County. In fact, I am told my family donated the land for large Lutheran church in northern Lancaster County, and therefore a few generations of my ancestors are buried there.

[Soloist]

This past week, I've started digging into my genealogy for the first time.

I'm using FamilySearch.org and its sub-site RelativeFinder.org

Wife: has anyone else read the privacy policy or the terms of service on family search? It’s kind of an odd seeming website and makes me wonder what the Mormons use it for with all their ordinances/rites/wards, etc.. Maybe to make sure their missionaries know who it is and isn’t eligible? They seem more into genealogy than the Mennonites are.

Mormons are in the process of baptizing by proxy, every person that ever died on this earth. So the family search database is used for this purpose. They also have a bunker in Utah made into solid granite, that utilizes 60 LDS staff, who file away all sorts of information about your ancestors. They are now in the process of digitizing this.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ords-vault

https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/29/20111 ... tual-tour/

OK, so just put it in a slightly different light. Does that mean I’ll end up being baptized by proxy if I use the site? I did think it looked pretty interesting but that’s a little bit strange. I also was waffling between using my own name, and some random obviously made up name, which would feel a little less OK on a religious site.

my dad sent me something from wikitree a while ago that I liked and didn’t have to put in specific information for, but I don’t know if it has all sides of my family or not.

[Ken]

This past week, I've started digging into my genealogy for the first time.

I'm using FamilySearch.org and its sub-site RelativeFinder.org

Wife: has anyone else read the privacy policy or the terms of service on family search? It’s kind of an odd seeming website and makes me wonder what the Mormons use it for with all their ordinances/rites/wards, etc.. Maybe to make sure their missionaries know who it is and isn’t eligible? They seem more into genealogy than the Mennonites are.

Mormons are in the process of baptizing by proxy, every person that ever died on this earth. So the family search database is used for this purpose. They also have a bunker in Utah made into solid granite, that utilizes 60 LDS staff, who file away all sorts of information about your ancestors. They are now in the process of digitizing this.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ords-vault

https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/29/20111 ... tual-tour/

I think all the major genealogy sites have some connection to the Mormon church. But an individual using the site isn't actually giving them any information they don't already know unless you are using the site to upload new information that they didn't already have.

In any event, they can do whatever silly fake baptisms for the long ago deceased that they want. Does anyone here actually believe it has any effect? That your long dead ancestors are going to wake up in heaven and discover that unbeknownst to them they have been turned Mormon because of some granite vault in Salt Lake City? The whole notion is silly.

I'm also kind of puzzled by the Mormon obsession with genealogy because accurate genealogical research only serves to underscore the fundamental lie behind the Mormon church that there was a lost tribe of Israel that populated North America and all that other nonsense that I'm too lazy to look up. You would think that they wouldn't want people to look too closely at the past.

[ohio jones]

Mike and I are fourth cousins once removed, fifth cousins once removed, fifth cousins twice removed, and sixth cousins once removed, depending on which branch you look at.

Poor mike. He's gonna need therapy knowing that

On a serious note, my wife was 7th cousins to her own maternal grandfather.

I wouldn't have expected that close of a connection given my lineage is Amish and presumably OJ's is Mennonite. Must have been some crossover at some point?

That's a result of the 19th century Old Order vs. Amish Mennonite division. Grandpa's ancestors (which is where all the connections come from) go back to the first Amish bishop ordained in North America. The congregation my great- and great-greats belonged to went with the Amish Mennonite side of the division and merged into the awkwardly-named "Ohio Mennonite and Eastern Amish Mennonite Joint Conference."

[mike]

Poor mike. He's gonna need therapy knowing that

On a serious note, my wife was 7th cousins to her own maternal grandfather.

I wouldn't have expected that close of a connection given my lineage is Amish and presumably OJ's is Mennonite. Must have been some crossover at some point?

That's a result of the 19th century Old Order vs. Amish Mennonite division. Grandpa's ancestors (which is where all the connections come from) go back to the first Amish bishop ordained in North America. The congregation my great- and great-greats belonged to went with the Amish Mennonite side of the division and merged into the awkwardly-named "Ohio Mennonite and Eastern Amish Mennonite Joint Conference."

That makes sense.

[Josh]

Another thought - Well, we DID meet, that time you came to Berlin.....

That's true So that makes 1.

Then along a different line, I also say I'm Dutch Mennonite when wanting to make a distinctive reference to the Dutch "baptism-minded" as distinct from the Swiss Brethren heritage and tradition.

This is confusing, because using the term "Dutch" around here usually is in reference to Pennsylvania Dutch, which encompass the Swiss Brethren groups. My wife and her family would be quite confident they aren't "Dutch" since they aren't Amish or PA Dutch. They would be very comfortable saying they are Russian Mennonites.

And, there were also Swiss Mennonites in Russia, and they were not Plautdietsch people. So 'Dutch Mennonite' is an ethnic description that goes back farther than does "Russian Mennonite", which I do not consider an accurate ethnic description.

Well, the term arose in 1874 when people came from Russia (despite some people's insistence on calling it Ukraine), and they were Mennonites. So they got called Russian Mennonites. That's the accepted term.

(And, also even farther back than is the Plautdietsch identity.)

"Plautdietsch" isn't a term anyone in my circles really ever uses; the handful of people who can speak it might say they speak "plaut". I don't think anyone I go to church with really would agree that they have a "Plautdietsch identity". They would feel comfortable with terms "Russian Mennonite" and "Holdeman", although "Holdeman" includes non-Russian Mennonite people.

I would have to go back and find all of my uses of 'Dutch Mennonite' to be sure this is accurate, but I THINK I use the term in these two ways or for these two distinctions: as an Ethnic reference, and as a theological reference (that is, as distinct from Swiss Brethren tradition). Many people, however, use even just "Mennonite" as an ethnic reference. For me, it is primarily a theological reference. I realize that many consider it a cultural reference, but since there are very significant cultural differences within that general category, I choose to use more exact terminology. It's a bit like someone saying they are 'Cherokee', or 'Osage', as opposed to saying that they are 'American Indian', or 'Native American'. (Then there are also language family distinctions as well.)

As a theological reference, "Dutch Mennonite" is a useful term; as an ethnic reference, I don't think it is very useful, since it is just confusing, and as I said earlier, the people I know/live with/work with/go to church with who would fit in your ethnic reference would reject the term and in particular reject it saying they aren't "Dutch".

[Josh]

Certain Mormons request access to baptise by proxy my grandma, and my mother keeps on not granting permission.

[Ken]

Certain Mormons request access to baptise by proxy my grandma, and my mother keeps on not granting permission.

I wasn't aware that they bothered to ask permission of anyone.

[Josh]

Certain Mormons request access to baptise by proxy my grandma, and my mother keeps on not granting permission.

I wasn't aware that they bothered to ask permission of anyone.

Yes, they do, and it's a big deal. They need to get permission from some relative, although I'm not sure exactly how the rules for that work. Once they have the "right" permissions, they can go straight up the family tree and get everyone taken care of.