Were they Christians? John 15:13

[temporal1]

“Were they Christians?”

Found on FB, no reference to Christianity:

“When the Titanic sank, it carried millionaire John Jacob Astor IV.
The money in his bank account was enough to build 30 Titanics. However, faced with mortal danger, he chose what he deemed morally right and gave up his spot in a lifeboat to save two frightened children.

Millionaire Isidor Straus, co-owner of the largest American chain of department stores, "Macy's," who was also on the Titanic, said:
"I will never enter a lifeboat before other men."

His wife, Ida Straus, also refused to board the lifeboat, giving her spot to her newly appointed maid, Ellen Bird. She decided to spend her last moments of life with her husband.

These wealthy individuals preferred to part with their wealth, and even their lives, rather than compromise their moral principles. Their choice in favor of moral values highlighted the brilliance of human civilization and human nature.”
credit: Paulyn Pickle

John 15:13
https://biblehub.com/john/15-13.htm

12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you.…

Not just about the Titanic, the Astors and Straus’s, this topic is about examples of Christian love and sacrifice, including forgiveness, when it occurs without outward evidence of stated and conscious Christian conversion. Incidents like these happen, i always understand them to represent how God and the Holy Spirit are not confined to human understanding and reasoning, there is more.

John 21:25
https://biblehub.com/john/21-25.htm

24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who has written them down.
And we know that his testimony is true.
25 There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

It doesn’t matter what “we” think. What matters is God’s judgment.

[Josh]

temporal1, this forum is intended for discussion of specific Christian denominations / groups etc

Did you have one in mind?

[temporal1]

temporal1, this forum is intended for discussion of specific Christian denominations / groups etc

Did you have one in mind?

i did.
i’ve also asked mods to move it to the general Christian Theology category, if they’d like to.

[Josh]

temporal1, this forum is intended for discussion of specific Christian denominations / groups etc

Did you have one in mind?

i did.
i’ve also asked mods to move it to the general Christian Theology category, if they’d like to.

What denomination is that?

[Sudsy]

The question to me is 'will good deeds save anyone', even laying down one's life for another.

Many who fought in the world wars were often viewed as laying down their lives on behalf of others. Scripture seems to indicate that no one is saved by their good works but rather putting their faith and trust in what Jesus did to save us. There are many verses in the NT that would indicate if these people who lay down their lives for another do not believe in Jesus and why He laid down His life for us, then they will not have eternal life. So, will good deeds save anyone ? Not what I read in scriptures. However, those who are born again, good deeds will be an evidence of their being a Christ follower.

So, bottom line for me is that even if it turns out that God saves some who do not trust in Jesus for their salvation, scriptures still give me the responsibility to tell people that Jesus said unless a person is born again they cannot see the Kingdom of God. I know of some very good living people who treat others better than many Christians would, yet they reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a matter of believing who saves us from our sins and the scriptures tell me, it isn't me and any good I can do. My salvation is based on nothing less than His blood and righteous.

[RZehr]

“It isn’t works that save us. It is faith alone in Jesus Christ.”

*man does something selfless and dies*

“Surely God will overlook this man’s lack of faith in Jesus and save this man because of what he did.”

[Ken]

John Jacob Astor IV was Episcopal to the extent that he was religious at all. The Astors were an absurdly rich Episcopal family from New York. His great grandfather also named John Jacob Astor made his fortune in the fur trade. He immigrated from Germany and was of the Reformed Church. But the Astor family mostly became Episcopal as they assimilated into NY society.

Isidor Straus was not Christian at all. He was a Jewish immigrant from Germany who was co-owner of Macy's Department Store with his brother Nathan Straus.

What they both have in common is their wealth and German heritage, not their Christianity.

[Szdfan]

You don’t have to be a Christian to be a good person. People who aren’t Christians can do good, sacrificial things.

[ohio jones]

Did they make good, moral decisions? Yes.

Were they Christians? The evidence presented is insufficient to reach that conclusion.

[Soloist]

Wife:There’s always the possibility that the Astors and many other people on the Titanic might have chosen to get right with God while on a sinking ship, and Straus could have chosen to follow Jesus. This act itself, brave as it may be, would not be enough to get someone into heaven, and there are probably examples of sacrificial love among Muslims and atheists and Hindus as well. Some people would do this feeling like it was a moral duty, or a way to be remembered as a hero, with little or no thought of God.

Ultimately, we will find out in heaven what their decisions were. In the meantime, we can always use examples like these of how we can show sacrificial love to others.

1Co 13:3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.