ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:26 am
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:27 am
I believe in a more NT way
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. There is no need for baptismal classes or formal church membership. Both are add-ons to the NT pattern. There is a church nearby where I live that immerses the same day or asap as possible after repentance.
Show me anywhere in the NT where there was any testing period or baptismal instruction classes or formal church membership with all of it's statement of faith, church covenant and rules and I might change my mind.
I suspect out of the 3,000 that repented and were immersed on the same day after Peter's sermon that some of these did not continue on in the faith.
I am not aware of any Christian faith group that really follows the NT pattern as is written in the NT.
OK, challenge is given. Change my mind.
The people we read about in Acts 2 were already God-fearing, observant Jews. Nominal, uncommitted people were not usually the ones who came to Jerusalem for Pentecost. Also, these people were already members of their local synagogues in their home towns. The only knowledge they were lacking was that Jesus was the Christ, crucified, risen, and ascended. Peter proclaimed the good news to them, and they believed. No further instruction needed, and no need to add them to the membership; they already belonged. Did they all continue on in the faith? Maybe a few of them stopped believing in Jesus but continued as observant Jews. It seems unlikely that many of them were pagans before or after.
This is an entirely different scenario than someone who has no previous knowledge of God and no connection to a church. There's plenty of instruction and discipleship training needed in that case, whether it's before or after baptism.
We might follow the NT pattern more precisely if our circumstances were identical to those in the NT.
Thankyou for your input. I agree that it appears those baptised on the day of Pentecost were Jews and perhaps their proselytes. I also agree that 'there's plenty of instruction and discipleship training needed' but I view this as primarily
after water baptism.
I believe what they needed to know to be baptised is what Peter preached about believing in Jesus. The same thing occurred in Acts 10 when Cornelius, a gentile and others were baptised after a similar message by Peter. So, my understanding is that there is no need for any instruction and discipleship training needed prior to water baptism if one understands water baptism to be a symbol and identification of Christ's burial and resurrection and immersion best pictures our dying to sin and being resurrected to new life in Christ.
I find it interesting that in early Christianity the Didache had included much belief and change of life required as well as a certain process including fasting prior to water baptism.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
As far as formal church membership and all of it's requirements (especially when they differ from one faith group to another within professing Christians), what scriptural support is there for most of these formal ways ? I thought Paul kinda shot this down back in 1 Cor 1:12-13 when he wrote
Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
I think Paul would be very disappointed today if he saw the mess created within Christian churches being so divided over things.