Hindus, Muslims, and Christians

[Ken]

I don’t care. My code of conduct is the Bible and it overrides anything that goes against God’s Word, such as many Supreme Court decisions. God is the ultimate judge.



Paul and Silas were sent to prison. We must obey God rather than men.

The school employee I mentioned earlier feels the same. He has won multiple precious souls for Christ. He cares about that a lot more than losing his job.

Interestingly, he hasn’t been fired yet either.

So which is it?

1. Are you like Soloist and could not sign a contract in which you agree follow district policy and the law and not proselytize in your classroom? or

2. Are you willing to violate God's law and commit the sin of lying and bearing false witness when you sign your employment contract because in your opinion you are doing it for a good reason?

It is either one or the other.

If that contract also has a clause in it that says you have read it and understand it, then you're kind of screwed to start with, right?

Nothing is stopping you from asking questions. All the teaching contracts I've ever seen and signed were just one page long. Pretty simple. They also spell out things like how long the contract is for, salary, duties, rights to reassignment, etc. I doubt it is much different from any other employment contract. Mostly the purpose of teaching contracts is to lock teachers in for the school year so you can't just walk away in the middle of the school year if you get a better offer somewhere else and leave the school and your classes in a bind. And they also give districts grounds for firing teachers if they violate their contracts.

[ken_sylvania]

So which is it?

1. Are you like Soloist and could not sign a contract in which you agree follow district policy and the law and not proselytize in your classroom? or

2. Are you willing to violate God's law and commit the sin of lying and bearing false witness when you sign your employment contract because in your opinion you are doing it for a good reason?

It is either one or the other.

If that contract also has a clause in it that says you have read it and understand it, then you're kind of screwed to start with, right?

Nothing is stopping you from asking questions. All the teaching contracts I've ever seen and signed were just one page long. Pretty simple. They also spell out things like how long the contract is for, salary, duties, rights to reassignment, etc. I doubt it is much different from any other employment contract. Mostly the purpose of teaching contracts is to lock teachers in for the school year so you can't just walk away in the middle of the school year if you get a better offer somewhere else and leave the school and your classes in a bind. And they also give districts grounds for firing teachers if they violate their contracts.

If they incorporate district policy which in turn incorporates all federal and state regulations there's no way you have read and understand it all.
Anyone who has completely read and fully understands the contract is going to be doing something that pays better than teaching public school.

[Ken]

If that contract also has a clause in it that says you have read it and understand it, then you're kind of screwed to start with, right?

Nothing is stopping you from asking questions. All the teaching contracts I've ever seen and signed were just one page long. Pretty simple. They also spell out things like how long the contract is for, salary, duties, rights to reassignment, etc. I doubt it is much different from any other employment contract. Mostly the purpose of teaching contracts is to lock teachers in for the school year so you can't just walk away in the middle of the school year if you get a better offer somewhere else and leave the school and your classes in a bind. And they also give districts grounds for firing teachers if they violate their contracts.

If they incorporate district policy which in turn incorporates all federal and state regulations there's no way you have read and understand it all.
Anyone who has completely read and fully understands the contract is going to be doing something that pays better than teaching public school.

You are agreeing to follow the rules of the district and follow the law as it pertains to your position and duties. That is pretty standard and unambiguous. That does not mean you have to go out and read all 200,000 pages in the entire Code of Federal Regulations.

[ken_sylvania]

Nothing is stopping you from asking questions. All the teaching contracts I've ever seen and signed were just one page long. Pretty simple. They also spell out things like how long the contract is for, salary, duties, rights to reassignment, etc. I doubt it is much different from any other employment contract. Mostly the purpose of teaching contracts is to lock teachers in for the school year so you can't just walk away in the middle of the school year if you get a better offer somewhere else and leave the school and your classes in a bind. And they also give districts grounds for firing teachers if they violate their contracts.

If they incorporate district policy which in turn incorporates all federal and state regulations there's no way you have read and understand it all.
Anyone who has completely read and fully understands the contract is going to be doing something that pays better than teaching public school.

You are agreeing to follow the rules of the district and follow the law. That is pretty standard. That does not mean you have to go out and read all 200,000 pages in the entire Code of Federal Regulations.

Right. In other words, you really don't know what all you're agreeing to.

[Ken]

If they incorporate district policy which in turn incorporates all federal and state regulations there's no way you have read and understand it all.
Anyone who has completely read and fully understands the contract is going to be doing something that pays better than teaching public school.

You are agreeing to follow the rules of the district and follow the law. That is pretty standard. That does not mean you have to go out and read all 200,000 pages in the entire Code of Federal Regulations.

Right. In other words, you really don't know what all you're agreeing to.

It is a free country. Find another job if you aren't willing to sign a simple teaching contract. Or become self employed. But most professional jobs are going to have a similar employment contract of some sort. But most people do understand what they are signing.

[ken_sylvania]

You are agreeing to follow the rules of the district and follow the law. That is pretty standard. That does not mean you have to go out and read all 200,000 pages in the entire Code of Federal Regulations.

Right. In other words, you really don't know what all you're agreeing to.

It is a free country. Find another job if you aren't willing to sign a simple teaching contract. Or become self employed. But most professional jobs are going to have a similar employment contract of some sort.

It's not a simple contract if it requires a commitment to adhering to 200,000 pages worth of CFRs.

[Ken]

Right. In other words, you really don't know what all you're agreeing to.

It is a free country. Find another job if you aren't willing to sign a simple teaching contract. Or become self employed. But most professional jobs are going to have a similar employment contract of some sort.

It's not a simple contract if it requires a commitment to adhering to 200,000 pages worth of CFRs.

You do not need to know the sanitation standards for hog slaughtering facilities. Or the stability requirements for crab fishing boats. What you do need to know is the laws that apply to your profession. Which is something that is covered in every teacher training program. You actually have to take a class in education law to get a teaching license.

[Josh]

I really doubt any teacher contracts state “You may not practice the core fundamentals of the Christian faith.”

[Ken]

I really doubt any teacher contracts state “You may not practice the core fundamentals of the Christian faith.”

The law says if you are a teacher you cannot proselytize in your classroom. The Supreme Court made this explicit in the 1962 case Engel v. Vitale.

And yes, every public school district in the country is going to expect you to follow the law. Not just this law but all the other laws that apply to your profession such as special education law, disability law, laws against sexual harassment of students, and non-discrimination laws. Which is why all of those topics are covered in every teacher certification program in the country.

[Soloist]

I really doubt any teacher contracts state “You may not practice the core fundamentals of the Christian faith.”

The law says if you are a teacher you cannon proselytize in your classroom. The Supreme Court made this explicit in the 1962 case Engel v. Vitale.

And yes, every public school district in the country is going to expect you to follow the law. Not just this law but all the other laws that apply to your profession and duties such as special education law, disability law, laws against sexual harassment of students, and non-discrimination laws.

At that point you’re going to be arguing about what is proselytizing or not. It’s ambiguous and really you need to see how it’s locally enforced. The times I have objected to signing had much more specific contracts. Something that ambiguous is not really a problem.
Virtually every contract has something about unwanted witnessing.