A letter I sent my senators, please consider similar.

[temporal1]

.. The fruit of Roe v Wade being overturned? A little chaotic maybe.
But you know what, I’m fine with that.
Because life doesn’t always move in nice straight lines; you gotta take what you can, when and where you can.

The efficiency gods should be feared. Dictatorships are founded on goals of efficiency. Democracies are awkward.
Awkward is great! Scriptures prepare us for awkward life on earth.

This is the opportunity for so many to do real thinking about their lives, their families. Choices can+should be made BEFORE conception. It’s a beautiful thing. Empower yourself. Protect yourself. Protect your family.

There should be no thoughtless action, “counting on” extermination of human life, if things don’t happen to go your way.
^^That’s a pitiful formula for life, no matter who you are. Don’t fall for it.

[Outsider]

If the tobacco companies can figure it out, so can pornographers.

My issue with the private solution is trust, Josh. I just don't trust pornographers! Their meat and potatoes are 18-year-old girls, they have a lot of motivation to get around or fudge or "accidentally" fail.

[Outsider]

When there are much better tools available to restrict what children have access to online.

Care to break that down, Barney-Style, Ken?

[Outsider]

And trying to erase the ability of children under 18 or 21 from having an online presence. I think that would be an unworkable disaster.

What makes you think it would be all that? No system will ever be perfect. I mean, kids get around laws banning them from bars, etc.- there's no disputing that. But the VAST MAJORITY of kids are kept out.

Anybody younger than 40 probably lived their entire childhood without the ability to post pictures and whatever else to the entire world through the internet. Sure they're not going to like it, but they don't have to like everything. And they'd still be able to Facetime their little friends and such- they just wouldn't be exposed to the WWW.

[Ken]

When there are much better tools available to restrict what children have access to online.

Care to break that down, Barney-Style, Ken?

1. Prohibit proprietary algorithm-driven engagement or prohibit it as the default setting for all social media. So that anorexic kids aren't sucked into a rabbit hole of pro-anorexia "engagement". Racist kids aren't sucked into a rabbit-hole of pro-racist "engagement", trans kids aren't sucked into a rabbit hole of pro-trans "engagement' and so forth. TikTok can still be TikTok and you could still search out whatever you want. And post your own material. But you aren't constantly fed a stream of material that matches your likes and viewing to keep you further hooked on the site.

2. Censor out noxious material as the default setting on all social media. However you want to define that (porn, medical misinformation, political misinformation, AI fakes, etc.)

3. Require parental verification to unlock the unfiltered and algorithm-driven versions of web sites and apps. Mostly we are talking about phone apps here, not web sites. Kids do 99% of their social media engagement on phones. So have an app-based system on Apple and Google where parental permission is required to install/unlock the full adult versions of apps. You can require this off the cell phone providers as well as Apple and Google.

Here is how it would work. I have a family plan with Verizon and my daughters have cell phones that I pay for and administer. The technology exists such that any time my daughter wants to download any app to her phone I would get a notification on my phone to approve or disapprove. So if she wanted to download and use the baby version of TikTok, fine. Maybe I approve that, maybe I don't. But if she wants to download and use the full unfiltered and algorithm-driven adult version I have to actually approve it through a notification on my phone as the owner and administrator of my phone's family plan.

Adults would be unaffected by all of this. But children who have phones on their parent's family plans (the vast majority) would need parental approval to stray into any adult space on their phones, app by app. Or to download and use any app if you want to make it more restrictive. It would be easy enough to let parents choose their own level of engagement. Do they have to approve EVERY app? Or only ones rated over age 15, over age 18, etc. Also let parents wipe off all non-compliant apps off their kids phones with a few clicks as well. Maybe I just let my daughter's phone remain permanently restricted to the under age 15 version of the app store. Maybe that's fine too.

No intrusive age verification system needed. And no need for any social media companies to maintain any intrusive personal information on any user that could be subject to data hacks and misuse. All the burden would be on Apple, Google, and the cell phone providers (who have government monopolies), not individual web sites scattered across the world.

[Josh]

Here's how the most popular cigarette brand in America restricts its website. You have to sign up first before you can even get past the front page, let alone request coupons.

I don't see why porn sites can't do what Marlboro does. Buying Marlboro cigarettes in a store requires showing ID. Using their website requires entering identifying info. The end.

They are asking you to submit a scan of your driver's license. Which doesn't actually do anything to verify the age or identity of the person sitting behind the screen. It just means you are giving them personal identifying information that can then be used for identity theft purposes.

For example, any 15 year old who wants to get tobacco coupons or get on pornhub just needs to steal a peek at a parent's driver's license and take a quick cell phone picture of it and they are off and running. The company at the other end can verify that the ID is valid. But they can't verify that the person behind the screen is the same person as is on the ID.

Wrong. See below.

That is why online tobacco sales were banned in Washington. There was no good way to ensure that the person making the order was who they say they were.

I frankly don't care if you want to require that people upload scans of their driver's licenses to pornhub. It won't accomplish much, but go for it. What I object to is requiring the same of every single social media site, including, for example, Mennonet. And trying to erase the ability of children under 18 or 21 from having an online presence. I think that would be an unworkable disaster.

ID.me requires you to do an interactive check with your phone’s camera to make sure it’s really you. And it works just fine. It validates that you have the same face as your passport, state ID, etc. ID.me is basically required for any online interaction with the IRS now.

Ohio has OH|ID, where you can certify business filings, file taxes online, apply for unemployment, apply for Medicaid or food stamps, and so forth. Due to major fraud with unemployment they have multiple “levels” of verification including validating a photo ID.

Australia has a similar service called myGovCode. The state of Victoria also had one. I have to use the former to register to make required Australian tax filings; I had to use the latter to order a certified copy of my birth certificate.

Finally, every small business in America that has an LLC, partnership, etc has to register with FinCEN for BOI including updating copies of photo ID for the person doing the filing and copies of photo ID for every owner of the business. There is talk of consolidating this with the ID.me system IRS uses.

Online validation of photo ID for identification and verification is technically feasible and is already being done and is basically required for many government interactions. Requiring it for porn sites is 100% feasible. Requiring it for social media actually would be too.

[Josh]

If the tobacco companies can figure it out, so can pornographers.

My issue with the private solution is trust, Josh. I just don't trust pornographers! Their meat and potatoes are 18-year-old girls, they have a lot of motivation to get around or fudge or "accidentally" fail.

I don’t trust them either.

Tobacco companies lost billions of dollars because they got caught marketing to people under the age of 18. Part of their settlements was having very strict standards of not marketing to anyone under 21 going forward. And they stick to that now, are under constant government supervision, and know they will get nailed hard if they get caught.

Like pornographers, they spent decades claiming it was impossible for kids not to get cigarettes and also claiming they didn’t market to kids. Both turned out to be lies.

[temporal1]

If the tobacco companies can figure it out, so can pornographers.

My issue with the private solution is trust, Josh. I just don't trust pornographers!
Their meat and potatoes are 18-year-old girls, they have a lot of motivation to get around or fudge or "accidentally" fail.

I don’t trust them either.

Tobacco companies lost billions of dollars because they got caught marketing to people under the age of 18. Part of their settlements was having very strict standards of not marketing to anyone under 21 going forward. And they stick to that now, are under constant government supervision, and know they will get nailed hard if they get caught.

Like pornographers, they spent decades claiming it was impossible for kids not to get cigarettes and also claiming they didn’t market to kids. Both turned out to be lies.

Flags / P.6:

I think that the Joe Camel, cigarette marketing to children, is an apt comparison.

Thanks.
To me, it’s a glaring comparison. One i hope will one day be remedied.

Children+teens are the primary targets and victims - males and females.
i couldn’t guess if one is more targeted/exploited than the other.

It needs to be ended. It’s not going to “auto-correct.” As with tobacco, Big Money drives it. LOBBIE$. Organized political BLOC$.

[Outsider]

When there are much better tools available to restrict what children have access to online.

Care to break that down, Barney-Style, Ken?

1. Prohibit proprietary algorithm-driven engagement or prohibit it as the default setting for all social media. So that anorexic kids aren't sucked into a rabbit hole of pro-anorexia "engagement". Racist kids aren't sucked into a rabbit-hole of pro-racist "engagement", trans kids aren't sucked into a rabbit hole of pro-trans "engagement' and so forth. TikTok can still be TikTok and you could still search out whatever you want. And post your own material. But you aren't constantly fed a stream of material that matches your likes and viewing to keep you further hooked on the site.

I agree with this. Those algorithms should be trashed across the board.

2. Censor out noxious material as the default setting on all social media. However you want to define that (porn, medical misinformation, political misinformation, AI fakes, etc.)

Just No. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. "Medical misinformation" is for me and my doctor to decide. "Political Misinformation"? Really? AI fakes? Who cares. Make 'em wear a watermark. Porn- well adults are going to do it. They will claim "free expression" etc. That's too "progressive" a solution. Like "Eugenic science" and "socialist agriculture". "Progressives" always think they're smarter than they are. And they've killed more people in the 20th century than all the wars in history.

Racism, as we know it now, is very much a product of the "progressive" movement. They try to blame it on Slavery in the South, and point to the "trail of tears" & such to prove that the white people, particularly in the South, are the cause of racism. But slavery and the trail of tears both weren't the product of hatred of men, but rather of the love of money. It wasn't until the 1890s that you got the massive racial segregation in both the Northern and Southern USA & around the world, and it was based on "following the science" of Charles Darwin's cousin when the "progressive" elites assumed that a lower cultural evolution was caused by the people in that culture being lower products of biological evolution. It didn't fall out of favor until the nightmare of the Holocost- the crowning achievement of progressive eugenics- was revealed to the world. No, **I** don't want "the party" determining what's "political misinformation" or a bunch of self-serving nobodies picking which doctors I should listen to when I consider my health and well-being.

Just NO NO NO.

MKULTRA and Project Mockingbird are unconstitutional and interfere with the public discourse and even elections.

3. Require parental verification to unlock the unfiltered and algorithm-driven versions of web sites and apps. Mostly we are talking about phone apps here, not web sites. Kids do 99% of their social media engagement on phones. So have an app-based system on Apple and Google where parental permission is required to install/unlock the full adult versions of apps. You can require this off the cell phone providers as well as Apple and Google.

I think for kids just having their little friends phone numbers to text/factime/game is plenty enough interaction. Beyond viewing access- much like in a local library in electronic format- there's no reason for kids to be producing content. Unless it's under supervision of parents or for credible scholastic reasons.

Here is how it would work. I have a family plan with Verizon and my daughters have cell phones that I pay for and administer. The technology exists such that any time my daughter wants to download any app to her phone I would get a notification on my phone to approve or disapprove. So if she wanted to download and use the baby version of TikTok, fine. Maybe I approve that, maybe I don't. But if she wants to download and use the full unfiltered and algorithm-driven adult version I have to actually approve it through a notification on my phone as the owner and administrator of my phone's family plan.

I think the algorithm version should just be killed. You want to find information, you search for the information. Not just what you've liked, but everything on that particular bit of info. That way you're exposed to both sides of the issue.

Adults would be unaffected by all of this.

I think your earlier suggestion would prove that otherwise. "The Party" determining and censoring what it considers "badthink" ("misinformation") is just totalitarianism for all.

No intrusive age verification system needed.

No intrusive age verification system needed with an anonymized token tied to a government database which already has the information at this very moment.

And no need for any social media companies to maintain any intrusive personal information on any user that could be subject to data hacks and misuse. All the burden would be on Apple, Google, and the cell phone providers (who have government monopolies), not individual web sites scattered across the world.

Same with an anonymized token.

[Ken]

Just No. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. "Medical misinformation" is for me and my doctor to decide. "Political Misinformation"? Really? AI fakes? Who cares. Make 'em wear a watermark. Porn- well adults are going to do it. They will claim "free expression" etc. That's too "progressive" a solution. Like "Eugenic science" and "socialist agriculture". "Progressives" always think they're smarter than they are. And they've killed more people in the 20th century than all the wars in history.

Racism, as we know it now, is very much a product of the "progressive" movement. They try to blame it on Slavery in the South, and point to the "trail of tears" & such to prove that the white people, particularly in the South, are the cause of racism. But slavery and the trail of tears both weren't the product of hatred of men, but rather of the love of money. It wasn't until the 1890s that you got the massive racial segregation in both the Northern and Southern USA & around the world, and it was based on "following the science" of Charles Darwin's cousin when the "progressive" elites assumed that a lower cultural evolution was caused by the people in that culture being lower products of biological evolution. It didn't fall out of favor until the nightmare of the Holocost- the crowning achievement of progressive eugenics- was revealed to the world. No, **I** don't want "the party" determining what's "political misinformation" or a bunch of self-serving nobodies picking which doctors I should listen to when I consider my health and well-being.

Just NO NO NO.

Oh, so you still want the internet to be full of garbage for teens to access.

You just want it to be YOUR garbage. Got it.