Politics and Squabbling: Calling people evil or demonic

[Grace]

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

Do others here see this differently ?

So if a person (current president) is producing and promoting evil things, such as murder of the unborn and mutilating children, is it not from an evil heart? When people promote evil, does it or doesn't it come from their hearts? And is it wrong for Christians to point that evil out?

[Grace]

Not every post was targeting me. But the timing of when the thread started reveals it was a response to my post about the president. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

I'm doing my best to not make this thread about you.

As I said, in my opinion, the timing when the thread was started would suggest otherwise. And my mind will not be changed on that. The thread was started right after I said something about president that seemed to offend some.

[Bootstrap]

Not every post was targeting me. But the timing of when the thread started reveals it was a response to my post about the president. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

I'm doing my best to not make this thread about you.

As I said, in my opinion, the timing when the thread was started would suggest otherwise. And my mind will not be changed on that. The thread was started right after I said something about president that seemed to offend some.

This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech. I also chose not to mention you or to single you out, and to focus on what Scripture teaches. I also chose to ask it as a question and get various perspectives.

To me, the word "targeting" implies bullying, harassing, or some kind of aggressive behavior. singling you out, shaming you. And I very much want to avoid doing any of those things. I have chosen not to make this thread about you at all. That would be easier if you would let it happen.

I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture.

[GaryK]

I'm doing my best to not make this thread about you.

As I said, in my opinion, the timing when the thread was started would suggest otherwise. And my mind will not be changed on that. The thread was started right after I said something about president that seemed to offend some.

This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech. I also chose not to mention you or to single you out, and to focus on what Scripture teaches. I also chose to ask it as a question and get various perspectives.

To me, the word "targeting" implies bullying, harassing, or some kind of aggressive behavior. singling you out, shaming you. And I very much want to avoid doing any of those things. I have chosen not to make this thread about you at all. That would be easier if you would let it happen.

I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture.

Not naming or singling someone out doesn't equal not targeting them. I'm guessing it's pretty clear to most people who read this and the other thread who was being targeted. I think Ken said it well.

I think there is a big difference between calling people out or disagreeing with them in the flow of a discussion thread on another topic. That seems fair game and is just part of the flow of a discussion thread. Versus creating a whole new discussion thread just to talk about some particular language or position that you want to call out in someone else. That seems gratuitous.

[Bootstrap]

This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech. I also chose not to mention you or to single you out, and to focus on what Scripture teaches. I also chose to ask it as a question and get various perspectives.

To me, the word "targeting" implies bullying, harassing, or some kind of aggressive behavior. singling you out, shaming you. And I very much want to avoid doing any of those things. I have chosen not to make this thread about you at all. That would be easier if you would let it happen.

I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture.

Not naming or singling someone out doesn't equal not targeting them.

By any definition I know of, nobody is being targeted in this thread. See the definition of targeting above.

And this really is my intent: "I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture."

I think it's useful to ask whether posts promote that or distract from that. Actually discussing Scripture as something that applies to the way we live our lives is important to me.

[temporal1]

all the while,
1) not acknowledging Grace’s apology-clarification,
2) ignoring a short question about whether certain gov policies can be evil, do evil,
3) starting yet another thread suggesting asking direct questions is “making it a fight” .. viewtopic.php?t=6714

i don’t think it’s intended, however, when multiple members do not get the intended message, maybe a different approach is worth consideration?

[GaryK]

This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech. I also chose not to mention you or to single you out, and to focus on what Scripture teaches. I also chose to ask it as a question and get various perspectives.

To me, the word "targeting" implies bullying, harassing, or some kind of aggressive behavior. singling you out, shaming you. And I very much want to avoid doing any of those things. I have chosen not to make this thread about you at all. That would be easier if you would let it happen.

I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture.

Not naming or singling someone out doesn't equal not targeting them.

By any definition I know of, nobody is being targeted in this thread. See the definition of targeting above.

And this really is my intent: "I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture."

I think it's useful to ask whether posts promote that or distract from that. Actually discussing Scripture as something that applies to the way we live our lives is important to me.

But you just wrote that "This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech."

I can't understand how that is not singling out or targeting or calling out Grace.

[Grace]

This thread was, in fact, motivated by things that you said that seemed out of keeping with my understanding of biblical teaching on Christian speech. I also chose not to mention you or to single you out, and to focus on what Scripture teaches. I also chose to ask it as a question and get various perspectives.

And in the first sentence the insinuation is made that the thread was started because of something I posted. In my opinion that is "targeting".
I think it would be good to be reminded (myself included) there are very wise and diligent moderators who so willingly take their time to moderate Mennonet. Let's trust them to call out any posts/words that are out of line, instead of taking matters into our own hands.

To me, the word "targeting" implies bullying, harassing, or some kind of aggressive behavior. singling you out, shaming you. And I very much want to avoid doing any of those things. I have chosen not to make this thread about you at all. That would be easier if you would let it happen.

Let the moderators decide what is out of line. And please stop telling me what to do to make it easier. That is for me to decide.

I do want to focus on how we, as Christians, should follow Scripture's teachings here. All of us. Not my opinion, but the teaching of Scripture.

Why not let each individual decide for themselves how they choose to live out what the scriptures teaches. And I will repeat, if something is out of line, trust the moderators to deal with the matter.

[Bootstrap]

Why not let each individual decide for themselves how they choose to live out what the scriptures teaches. And I will repeat, if something is out of line, trust the moderators to deal with the matter.

This thread does not call for the moderators to do anything. And individuals will, in fact, decide for themselves how to choose to live out what the Scripture teaches. Is there any real danger of anything else happening?

This thread is for discussing what Scripture DOES teach. Would you please allow that to happen? Why discuss what Scripture teaches? Because I think that should be our guide ...

[Sudsy]

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

Do others here see this differently ?

So if a person (current president) is producing and promoting evil things, such as murder of the unborn and mutilating children, is it not from an evil heart? When people promote evil, does it or doesn't it come from their hearts? And is it wrong for Christians to point that evil out?

In my previous post I was trying to say that I thought Jesus was pointing out that how I speak about others doing evil can make me guilty of doing evil myself as the way Jesus looks at murder, for instance, I can murder someone in my thoughts and accompanying words. I don't see where pointing out what is evil to be a problem but when I associate that evil with the sinner who does that evil, then I believe I am stepping into a new realm of passing judgment on a person and Jesus warns me not to do that.

I can be correct according to scripture that, for instance, killing the unborn is murder but can I talk about it in a condemning way on those who actually do it or promote it and not be guilty of murder myself by thinking and calling that person a murderer ? I think Jesus is saying, no, I should not and I gave some scripture text about how Jesus says how this makes me guilty of murder.

I welcome other ways of understanding this. Provide scripture where possible.