Politics and Squabbling: Calling people evil or demonic

[ken_sylvania]

The timing would suggest that this is in response to your post but presented as "not targeted at anyone in particular."

I am very much attempting to discuss it that way.

Why do you insist on taking offense rather than discuss the topic? I think that gets in the way of talking about things as Christians who care about the Bible and following Jesus. It's a common response here when people ask what the Bible teaches about something that involves our own behavior as Christians.

Oh, I'm not offended. Just pointing out what's going on. I understand you like to discuss what the Bible teaches about things that involve other people's behavior on MN, but some of us don't especially like doing that while pretending that we're not discussing specific people and their posting habits.

Discussing these type of things in the abstract seems pointless to me, as when it comes to actual practice it seems obvious that we are miles apart even when we agree in the abstract.

[temporal1]

boot,
Grace clarified her words.
In response to her clarification, do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil?

Good question.

It could be a poll question. So as to avoid anyone feeling they’re being unfairly targeted.

[Grace]

boot,
Grace clarified her words.
In response to her clarification, do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil?

Good question.

It could be a poll question. So as to avoid anyone feeling they’re being unfairly targeted.

Interestingly the question was not answered.

[temporal1]

Good question.

It could be a poll question. So as to avoid anyone feeling they’re being unfairly targeted.

Interestingly the question was not answered.

no, but another thread was started.
i doubt i’ll start a poll. it’s too depressing to think any member would not recognize whosesale evil openly celebrated.

[Sudsy]

boot,
Grace clarified her words.
In response to her clarification, do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil?

Good question.

I know it wasn't asked of me but I'll give a reply anyway.

I think there is a problem with me pointing fingers at a person who does certain sinning and instead it should be the sinning itself is what I can point out. I can and should judge what I see the scripture calls sin but I also should remember that 'but for the grace of God, there go I'. Otherwise I might be sinning in thinking more highly of myself than I ought and thus sinning myself.

I don't think it is about being some kind of a pansy or weak Christian for not calling out sin but rather about passing judgments on others as being evil. I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

When world leaders and anyone is despised and hated for their beliefs and actions, that, to me, is sinning. I am not called to point out all the places that sin shows up in the world but rather to point others to the Saviour from sin. In my experience, most people already know they are sinners or it doesn't take much to point out what scripture calls sin. My job is to focus on the remedy but I can get hung up on just identifying kinds of sinning.

Whenever I slip into passing judgment of other people's sins, I could be operating in a similar attitude that the Pharisee had when he said God I am glad I am not like this sinner. A self righteous attitude that does not see his own sinful ways.

I can slip into this view of others when I give way to the flesh and it results in missing out on the abundant life Jesus spoke about.

[Grace]

I know it wasn't asked of me but I'll give a reply anyway.

I think there is a problem with me pointing fingers at a person who does certain sinning and instead it should be the sinning itself is what I can point out. I can and should judge what I see the scripture calls sin but I also should remember that 'but for the grace of God, there go I'. Otherwise I might be sinning in thinking more highly of myself than I ought and thus sinning myself.

I don't think it is about being some kind of a pansy or weak Christian for not calling out sin but rather about passing judgments on others as being evil. I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

When world leaders and anyone is despised and hated for their beliefs and actions, that, to me, is sinning. I am not called to point out all the places that sin shows up in the world but rather to point others to the Saviour from sin. In my experience, most people already know they are sinners or it doesn't take much to point out what scripture calls sin. My job is to focus on the remedy but I can get hung up on just identifying kinds of sinning.

Whenever I slip into passing judgment of other people's sins, I could be operating in a similar attitude that the Pharisee had when he said God I am glad I am not like this sinner. A self righteous attitude that does not see his own sinful ways.

I can slip into this view of others when I give way to the flesh and it results in missing out on the abundant life Jesus spoke about.

The question Temp asked of Boot was:
Do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil? . He did not answer the question.

That being said, Jesus also said,"by their fruits you shall know them".

Your statement:

I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

That comment is a bit confusing. "Speaking evil" of someone's actions, and saying you "hate that sin", seems to me as one and the same.

[Soloist]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people.

It’s like the song in the Christian Hymnary, there are two commands recorded in the Bible. One verse says, if you love God, you will love those round about us. Man or woman, saint or sinner, bond or free. You are not to love their sins if they should falter, but because they’re human beings just as we.

Yes, Jesus did use harsh names for the Pharisees, which were the religious leaders of the time (although we don’t see him commenting at all about the Romans, who were pretty evil too and endorsed all sorts of wickedness), and I’m not sure what we should do about that, but I think we need to be careful calling anyone, demonic, or the antichrist or anything else like that. I’ve seen people on both sides do that in my personal life and I mostly stay out of the politics on Menno. it always bothered me though about how my dad would say someone like Obama, Hillary or some thing, and was the antichrist, because then he made it sound like that person wasn’t capable of coming to salvation, and it didn’t sound like he was following the model of praying for those in authority. Heard some lady say the same things about trump. A lot of what they promoted was anti-Christ, and I certainly don’t condone that, but they are human beings, in need of a savior, which is one of the reasons why there’s a commandment to pray for them.

[temporal1]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people. ..

If .. boot had simply thanked Grace for her clarification, directed to him, which was short and clear, and which (i believe) has general consensus on this forum, it could have ended right there.

i wish it would have.

What exactly does Trump have to do with this? Have you ever stopped to think about why you have such a compulsion to mention him whenever Grace or Temp criticizes Biden?

I am also criticizing Biden in this thread.

But to me, there's a pretty big difference between criticizing Biden and calling him "demonic" or "evil".
The whole "us versus them" questioning of sanity and morality and all that is a bit much. It's quite literally demonizing.

I apologize for my strong words in calling Biden "demonic" or "evil". I should have used those words in reference to what he promotes and not to him directly. However, I cannot deem mutilating, gender confused children and destroying the lives of the unborn as "not" evil.

[Soloist]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people. ..

If .. boot had simply thanked Grace for her clarification, directed to him, which was short and clear, and which (i believe) has general consensus on this forum, it could have ended right there.

i wish it would have.

I am also criticizing Biden in this thread.

But to me, there's a pretty big difference between criticizing Biden and calling him "demonic" or "evil".
The whole "us versus them" questioning of sanity and morality and all that is a bit much. It's quite literally demonizing.

I apologize for my strong words in calling Biden "demonic" or "evil". I should have used those words in reference to what he promotes and not to him directly. However, I cannot deem mutilating, gender confused children and destroying the lives of the unborn as "not" evil.

Wife Yes, I do think that it was poor taste to bring up in making this thread, and I don’t want my comment to be targeted. I actually did not read that other thread, although maybe I might have looked at it once, but I certainly don’t want Grace to feel like I’m calling her out. I think it is good to call out sun, but not to target the person themselves, which is actually a little ironic given the creation of this thread being targeted. I think every unregenerated person furthers the agenda of the devil, and sometimes, unfortunately, as Christians can be used as tools of the devil to when we live in the flesh.

[temporal1]

Wife Yes, I do think that it was poor taste to bring up in making this thread, and I don’t want my comment to be targeted. I actually did not read that other thread, although maybe I might have looked at it once, but I certainly don’t want Grace to feel like I’m calling her out. I think it is good to call out sun, but not to target the person themselves, which is actually a little ironic given the creation of this thread being targeted. I think every unregenerated person furthers the agenda of the devil, and sometimes, unfortunately, as Christians can be used as tools of the devil to when we live in the flesh.

Wife, i always look forward to your comments, thank you, and .. be cautious about taking anything “too” personally on this forum of imperfect members. Good communication is hard! Just when you think you’ve got your words together, along comes someone reflecting, “not quite!”

Grace is needed - including for ourselves, which can be hardest of all. Not at the moment, but, in the past, some have been awfully hard on themselves.

i don’t think boot intended anything negative. sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t. so much.

keep posting. your view is appreciated.