Keep in mind, Martin Luther, Menno Simons, loved their Church. They didn’t want to leave.
It’s really hard to be forced away from one’s commitments. “Force” was the operative word in those times.
Today, people don’t face physical execution. However, mental and heart challenges remain, changing habits and expectations, family and community, it remains a big deal, even if not life-threatening. Hopefully, the goal is eternal life-giving.
Much of this is experienced internally, not visible in the public eye. Jesus knows.
Catholic to Anabaptist
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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- Posts: 16792
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
- Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
God uses trauma to bring us closer to Him. Gomer was an epic example, God was candid about His intent.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
I remember from books and pamphlets that I read in the 80s and early 90s how despised the Catholic church was by evangelicals, some of whom taught that it was the beast or antichrist of Revelation. I think that evangelical Protestants these days are much more likely to find common cause with Catholics than they were 30 years ago, partly due to politics and party due to reasons you mention. It's also hard for evangelicals to point to the corruption of the Catholic church without pointing three fingers back at their own scandals.barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:11 am I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
Another interesting sidenote: Billy Graham was a personal friend of Pope John Paul II. The two had quite a bit in common and met together often.mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:19 amI remember from books and pamphlets that I read in the 80s and early 90s how despised the Catholic church was by evangelicals, some of whom taught that it was the beast or antichrist of Revelation. I think that evangelical Protestants these days are much more likely to find common cause with Catholics than they were 30 years ago, partly due to politics and party due to reasons you mention. It's also hard for evangelicals to point to the corruption of the Catholic church without pointing three fingers back at their own scandals.barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:11 am I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
i’m pretty sure this was a 2-way street .. strongly so.mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:19 amI remember from books and pamphlets that I read in the 80s and early 90s how despised the Catholic church was by evangelicals, some of whom taught that it was the beast or antichrist of Revelation.barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:11 am I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
I think that evangelical Protestants these days are much more likely to find common cause with Catholics than they were 30 years ago, partly due to politics and party due to reasons you mention. It's also hard for evangelicals to point to the corruption of the Catholic church without pointing three fingers back at their own scandals.
even in my young life, largely protected from it, i was aware of deep antagonism on both sides, probably more “formal” on the Catholic side. i was in public school with all sorts of Protestants, Catholics, and non-Christians. We did well, but there was no kum-bah-ya.
today’s lens of ecumenism has altered a lot in Christianity, not just wrt Catholicism, but they are not an exception.
https://pluralism.org/the-ecumenical-movement
i’d prefer these interesting bunny trails be discussed in ..
See P.4 / Video: A Lamp in the Dark
viewtopic.php?t=3138&start=30
Last edited by temporal1 on Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
The culture wars have redrawn the lines and put them on the same side.mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:19 amI remember from books and pamphlets that I read in the 80s and early 90s how despised the Catholic church was by evangelicals, some of whom taught that it was the beast or antichrist of Revelation. I think that evangelical Protestants these days are much more likely to find common cause with Catholics than they were 30 years ago, partly due to politics and party due to reasons you mention. It's also hard for evangelicals to point to the corruption of the Catholic church without pointing three fingers back at their own scandals.barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:11 am I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:38 amThe culture wars have redrawn the lines and put them on the same side.mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:19 amI remember from books and pamphlets that I read in the 80s and early 90s how despised the Catholic church was by evangelicals, some of whom taught that it was the beast or antichrist of Revelation. I think that evangelical Protestants these days are much more likely to find common cause with Catholics than they were 30 years ago, partly due to politics and party due to reasons you mention. It's also hard for evangelicals to point to the corruption of the Catholic church without pointing three fingers back at their own scandals.barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:11 am I'm not sure how much we can compare the 16th century Catholicism which the reformers critiqued to the current Catholic church. Before the Reformation Catholics did not think of themselves as Catholic, rather as Christians. Since they have had to define Catholic identify against other western traditions, this is an on going project. In many ways (not all, it's a mixed bag) I feel closer to modern Catholicism as the pomp and power of the middle ages wastes away and the remaining faithful are of the poor and forgotten.
There’s loss of memory, plus, sheer ignorance. Few Bible readers, Catholic or Protestant.
This was discussed quite a lot on MD.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
- Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
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Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
^^Thanks, mike. This is closer to the topic.mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:12 am We have good friends who made the journey from Catholic to Evangelical to Anabaptist. They grew up in a strongly Catholic area and family culture, including the large family ethos. I think that the Catholic priest scandal-ridden era (locally and nationally) had a strong impact on their seeking other faith traditions. Among other things.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Re: Catholic to Anabaptist
I th8nk you are missing my po8nt. I am making no judgments about anyone converting from or to any group.
My point simply is drawing conclusions about “Catholics who converted” is simply doubly inaccurate.
NOT using the definition any Catholic that converts isn’t really Catholic. Rather, recognize a serious Catholic led to convert is quite different from a ethnic Catholic who converted. Many of the ex Catholics I met in such circles were quite critical of Catholicism and equally lacked knowledge of Catholicism.
I would observe some of my Jewish friends are similar. Some are quite serious about their Judaism. Others simply born to it and know little. They aren’t the same group of people.
My point simply is drawing conclusions about “Catholics who converted” is simply doubly inaccurate.
NOT using the definition any Catholic that converts isn’t really Catholic. Rather, recognize a serious Catholic led to convert is quite different from a ethnic Catholic who converted. Many of the ex Catholics I met in such circles were quite critical of Catholicism and equally lacked knowledge of Catholicism.
I would observe some of my Jewish friends are similar. Some are quite serious about their Judaism. Others simply born to it and know little. They aren’t the same group of people.
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