Ordinances are also sometimes referred to as "emblems" along various Anabaptist groups. From what I can find, Ulrich Zwingli seems to have been responsible in large part for the expression, and firm establishment, of this "memorial view" (of the eucharist) among Anabaptists.Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:50 pmIt is interesting at all the variations of this practice even within Anabaptism. And then there is the whole issue of whether this is a sacrament or an ordinance. Sacrament often considered a means of God's grace as a blessing, salvation or sanctification. Ordinance usually means it is not a conduit of grace but rather an act of obedience. However, some use these terms interchangeably.
I remember once when I referred to this practice in the MB church as a sacrament and quickly was corrected by the pastor that this was an ordinance and not a sacrament. He seemed to be very strong on there being no salvation properties in this practice.
Communion as a Sacrament
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Re: Questions about Communion / Lord's Supper
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Re: Questions about Communion / Lord's Supper
I'm fine with people arriving at different conclusions in their own mind. What I do have a problem with is people who try to nail down a particular view whenever God didn't think it was necessary to provide further explanation in the scriptures. Jesus said, "Take eat this is my body. This do in remembrance of me." There are other scriptures. Let's focus on what is said and let it at that... Not focus on what is not said.
Whatever happens, is what actually happens, regardless of what I or anybody else thinks happens.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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Re: Questions about Communion / Lord's Supper
Indeed. I suspect we shall all be surprised about what we shall learn in the afterlife.Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:37 pmI'm fine with people arriving at different conclusions in their own mind. What I do have a problem with is people who try to nail down a particular view whenever God didn't think it was necessary to provide further explanation in the scriptures. Jesus said, "Take eat this is my body. This do in remembrance of me." There are other scriptures. Let's focus on what is said and let it at that... Not focus on what is not said.
Whatever happens, is what actually happens, regardless of what I or anybody else thinks happens.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Communion as a Sacrament
"Sacrament" and "Mystery" are basically the same word. The former is derived from the Latin while the latter is derived from the Greek.Josh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:59 amAre they interchangeable? My understanding is sacraments are clearly defined things.
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As for the question of the Eucharist and Christ's presence in it, I'd say that we in the Orthodox Church 'symbolically' eat and drink the body and blood of Christ; but by 'symbolically', I mean that it is a point where material reality meets immaterial reality. In other words, I do not accept the idea that "this is a symbol" means that it is not real. Christ is literally present in the Eucharist and that is real because what is real is not just the material reality.
I would suggest, then, that the issue is less whether or not the Eucharist is physically Christ's body and blood, but rather what the words "symbol" and "remembrance" mean.
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"I publicly confess that this teaching clearly reveals truths that will afford us the blessings of life and I submit that the temples and altars that we have dedicated to no advantage be immediately desecrated and burned." [A.D. 627]
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Re: Communion as a Sacrament
Jump to the 14:40 minute mark in the video. This is only part of the sermon that has been edited for posting on Facebook. The first part deals with "baptism", the second part addresses communion.
This is from a recent sermon that I preached on "Channels of Grace" that y'all may find interesting in regards to this question.
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Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth.
rightly dividing the word of truth.