Miller Farms fined

[Soloist]

Multiple outbreaks among the Hassidic Jews as well. Wife got sent to an Orthodox high school to help run the mass vaccination clinic. She was the screener on the ladies side. Apparently, they did not know what exactly to make of her.

I bet that was quite an experience. My sister is kind of feeling her way towards Judaism due to the community it offers. She married a Jewish Atheist who divorced his first wife. He is related to the orthodox group in New York even though they live in Australia. She wandered away from her childhood faith in college but would still call herself a christian.

It is wherever do they pigeonhole a Nurse in a long Jumper, with a Capp on.

They actually had a death. A young adult that got encephalitis. I was still working at the time, my modern orthodox attending was bouncing off the walls, wishing he could clone my wife and send her all over the area.

Do you happen to know which group, likely Satmar or Chabad-Lubavitch, If it is Ger Hasidim tell her to RUN.

Wife: I really don’t think she’s all that serious about it. I guess his daughter joined some liberal group in Sydney, and she was talking about maybe joining sometime for the community side, and we asked her about the whole Jesus thing, and she acted like maybe they would be OK with it and her family laughed and said no. I think she’s more atheist or agnostic than anything else, and she is definitely not any sort of anti-vaxxer.

[Verity]

Apparently there are a few Anabaptist church groups that eschew vaccines as a whole. Mt Zion in TN is one I heard of last year, the group that has the literature ministry. There are individual congregations that have fairly strong feelings against, but I never heard it over the pulpit.

I know a few families personally who avoid them due to severe medial reactions. But none of those families are adamant that no one should get vaccinated. It is a personal choice. Not everyone who declines is fanatical.

There was a group of folks that we met several years ago that don't go to the doctor at all. No medications whatsoever. They were fine people. When someone in their community died and others blamed it on lack of medical care, they said they knew more cases of people dying with medical care. They believed it was God's will for the individual to die. They did take their physical health seriously and seemed to have very few medical issues compared to their Anabaptist neighbors.

[Soloist]

There was a group of folks that we met several years ago that don't go to the doctor at all. No medications whatsoever. They were fine people. When someone in their community died and others blamed it on lack of medical care, they said they knew more cases of people dying with medical care. They believed it was God's will for the individual to die. They did take their physical health seriously and seemed to have very few medical issues compared to their Anabaptist neighbors.

If one (like me) follows the logic of fetal cells being a problem in medicine is going to run into serious problems with any modern treatment such as cardiology, diabetes, pulmonology… and so on… cancer treatment is pretty suspect. End result is either you find a doctor willing to use medication with poor success rates or high side effects… or you go without medical treatment.
Even surgical implants are suspect now days due to looking into replacement options for crab blood.

[eccentric_rambler]

Soloist, is that because of prior testing that used fetal cells or current processes? (Not that it makes a difference, just curious.)

[Soloist]

Soloist, is that because of prior testing that used fetal cells or current processes? (Not that it makes a difference, just curious.)

I object to both.
It’s testing, research development and production.

Basically I’m not as worried with medications developed prior to 1980 but I have ran across some rare testing farther back. I try not to spend a great deal of time looking into old medications unless asked but I suspect it for the modern stuff. Generally I check the FDA papers and if something is suggestive or intentionally vague I dig into the company research and development.
Vaccines used to clearly state right on the CDC pink book if there was fetal cells used to produce it but that information has been removed. You still can find it in the FDA documents. That’s for production such as growing the virus.
Stuff like extraction of fetal DNA to replicate in Ecoli is harder to find, I had to dig considerably into Pfizer to find that data.
“Confirmation testing” is generally pretty easy to find for vaccines but generally not used for medications or harder to find.
Safety studies is the primary use of fetal cells in the majority of medications.
Some medications are produced by chimera’s for initial development and then manufactured without. These chimeras are fresh fetal tissue such as thymus tissue that is grafted into immune deficient mice. This was exposed back in 2008 as a federally funded research which is privately done now.
Some medication use the fetal DNA to produce the specific medications such as Epogen or Procrit.

Some of the very expensive immunotherapy is developed with fetal cells at some stage and much of the monoclonal therapy is similar.

It never was just vaccines, I just didn’t know how wide it was prior to Covid… I knew of specific stuff but not how wide spread the practice has become. Either someone takes a stand or becomes a participant in the future.
Most people don’t care or don’t want to know.

[eccentric_rambler]

Soloist, is that because of prior testing that used fetal cells or current processes? (Not that it makes a difference, just curious.)

I object to both.
It’s testing, research development and production.

Basically I’m not as worried with medications developed prior to 1980 but I have ran across some rare testing farther back. I try not to spend a great deal of time looking into old medications unless asked but I suspect it for the modern stuff. Generally I check the FDA papers and if something is suggestive or intentionally vague I dig into the company research and development.
Vaccines used to clearly state right on the CDC pink book if there was fetal cells used to produce it but that information has been removed. You still can find it in the FDA documents. That’s for production such as growing the virus.
Stuff like extraction of fetal DNA to replicate in Ecoli is harder to find, I had to dig considerably into Pfizer to find that data.
“Confirmation testing” is generally pretty easy to find for vaccines but generally not used for medications or harder to find.
Safety studies is the primary use of fetal cells in the majority of medications.
Some medications are produced by chimera’s for initial development and then manufactured without. These chimeras are fresh fetal tissue such as thymus tissue that is grafted into immune deficient mice. This was exposed back in 2008 as a federally funded research which is privately done now.
Some medication use the fetal DNA to produce the specific medications such as Epogen or Procrit.

Some of the very expensive immunotherapy is developed with fetal cells at some stage and much of the monoclonal therapy is similar.

It never was just vaccines, I just didn’t know how wide it was prior to Covid… I knew of specific stuff but not how wide spread the practice has become. Either someone takes a stand or becomes a participant in the future.
Most people don’t care or don’t want to know.

Thanks. I realize now it sounds like I was questioning your position. I was curious whether the cells are used in production or testing, which you answered. Monoclonal? Please don't tell me the biologic I am on for an autoimmune disorder might be suspect.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Soloist, is that because of prior testing that used fetal cells or current processes? (Not that it makes a difference, just curious.)

I object to both.
It’s testing, research development and production.

Basically I’m not as worried with medications developed prior to 1980 but I have ran across some rare testing farther back. I try not to spend a great deal of time looking into old medications unless asked but I suspect it for the modern stuff. Generally I check the FDA papers and if something is suggestive or intentionally vague I dig into the company research and development.
Vaccines used to clearly state right on the CDC pink book if there was fetal cells used to produce it but that information has been removed. You still can find it in the FDA documents. That’s for production such as growing the virus.
Stuff like extraction of fetal DNA to replicate in Ecoli is harder to find, I had to dig considerably into Pfizer to find that data.
“Confirmation testing” is generally pretty easy to find for vaccines but generally not used for medications or harder to find.
Safety studies is the primary use of fetal cells in the majority of medications.
Some medications are produced by chimera’s for initial development and then manufactured without. These chimeras are fresh fetal tissue such as thymus tissue that is grafted into immune deficient mice. This was exposed back in 2008 as a federally funded research which is privately done now.
Some medication use the fetal DNA to produce the specific medications such as Epogen or Procrit.

Some of the very expensive immunotherapy is developed with fetal cells at some stage and much of the monoclonal therapy is similar.

It never was just vaccines, I just didn’t know how wide it was prior to Covid… I knew of specific stuff but not how wide spread the practice has become. Either someone takes a stand or becomes a participant in the future.
Most people don’t care or don’t want to know.

I’m ok with fda mandated post production testing but far less ok with production. This bell cannot be unrung and as far as I can tell the only place where this seems to be an issue is vaccination, it will be tougher for oncology . An absolutist position will be hard to maintain ethically when you are responsible for the care of others.

[Soloist]

Thanks. I realize now it sounds like I was questioning your position. I was curious whether the cells are used in production or testing, which you answered. Monoclonal? Please don't tell me the biologic I am on for an autoimmune disorder might be suspect.

I’m not offended. I assumed it was a serious question.
Monoclonal therapy doesn’t always use it but the majority of biologics use for some aspect of it, either research such as with the mouse chimera, safety trials or productions. Some are not so it would depend. If you want, I can look for you or you can look yourself and I can offer suggestions as to where you need to look. Or you can not look. I don’t judge you either way.
I’ve made exceptions for my children in regard to life saving measures… a dead child for a living child I can’t make that choice for them…
My conviction is that I would rather die of rabies then receive a compromised vaccine. There is an ethical one in Canada though.

In response to Judas, I won’t administer things produced if I’m aware of it. There are many fields I cannot work in but this is the direction all medical fields are heading in, abortion derived medicine.

[Josh]

JM,

Use of stem cells is becoming so ubiquitous it’s becoming a real problem. A good example of an elective surgery that relies on them are hip/knee implants.

[Robert]

I am too tired to move posts. Let's stay on subject. Feel free to discuss vaccines in its own thread. It would be a very good one for posterity.