Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[RZehr]

I just can’t imagine.

A Ukrainian commander has detailed how he ended up fighting "son vs. father" on the battlefield in Ukraine.

Oleksandr, a 19-year-old armored vehicle commander, told his story to Ukrainian broadcaster TCH in a segment published on Tuesday.

According to the report, Oleksandr lived more than half of his life in Russia. He's estranged from his father, who he called a "father in theory, but in reality — a nobody," according to a translation provided by the War Translated X account.

Oleksandr now commands a Bradley infantry fighting vehicle unit, currently in Avdiivka, TCH reported.

The US-supplied vehicles received considerable international attention last year during Ukraine's summer counteroffensive, given their robustness.

Oleksandr's unit became the center of media attention in July, TCH reported.

His Bradley was reported to have struck two Russian T-72 tanks in the Zaporizhzhia region, which Business Insider reported on at the time. The clash was swiftly publicized by Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar.

Oleksandr told the outlet he later received a phone call from an unknown number. He picked it up, and a voice said: "'Son, come to us,'" he told the broadcaster.

His father, he explained, was a tank commander, and had been tasked with seeing off the very Bradleys that Oleksandr was fighting in.

"He was a tank man, and tanks are a danger for us," Oleksandr said.

He also said he learned from the call that his father had been among those firing on him.

The pair had been fighting "son vs. father," he said.

Oleksandr said his father told him: "Son, once I knew it was you, I stopped firing!"

But he said his response was: "So what?"

BI has not independently verified Oleksandr's story, but family ties between Ukrainians and Russians — including those enlisted to fight — are common due to the two countries' deeply entwined history.

At the outset of the full-scale invasion, many Ukrainians were unable to persuade their own family members in Russia of the realities of the conflict, which President Vladimir Putin euphemistically dubbed a "special military operation," as BI reported.

In one instance, a woman told BI that her own uncle had called her family in Ukraine to announce that he had signed up to fight for Russia.

Oleksandr told TCH that he later found out that his father had been killed in a drone attack on his tank.

"He just burned in it," he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-co ... 24109.html

This is quite the account. As a father, I can feel the pain and love in the father voice "Son, once I knew it was you, I stopped firing!"
As a son, I can’t imagine having such a callous spirit towards my father.

[temporal1]

This is quite the account.
As a father, I can feel the pain and love in the father voice "Son, once I knew it was you, I stopped firing!"
As a son, I can’t imagine having such a callous spirit towards my father.

It cannot be known what emotions lie beneath the words+actions of war. Many people can be “trained” out of their humanity. At least for a period.

These types of incidents, brother against brother, counsin against cousin, were things my mother described to me (altho she was not present for the U.S. Civil War) .. but many of those following, no matter their position, wanted so much for that war to be “never again,” they tried to pass that down to the next generations .. but, governments do not learn. Ordinary people pay, and bleed, and die.

Experiences+messages haunt+haunt for time after, beyond human ability to remember where those messages came from.
No one knows all of why we believe as we do.

It’s all God’s design. He provides what we need, not always what we want.
Including what we know, what we remember, what we forget.

[mike]

I'm reading a history of the Allied landing in Africa, Operation Torch. The first few days were full of bungling and disaster on the part of the Allies, and the commanders said that the fighting went much better once the men developed a hatred for their enemies.

[Soloist]

Hitler really screwed up there by removing Rommel and refusing his proposal of pulling back to a defensive line. He single handedly destroyed his war effort in Africa with that move.

[Neto]

More on Nestor Makhno and the slaughter of Mennonites - responses to the video.

The Nogai and Tatar are two separate nomadic tribes.

The videographer slaughters most names, both surnames and common German language first names.
(For instance, Toews is pronounced ‘tayves’ not ‘toes’.I can’t remember now how he messed up Gerhard.)

I have to wonder what his objective was. Was it anti-Russian? Anti-Ukrainian? I couldn’t tell. But he didn’t seem to know that Makhno was Ukrainian, and that the Anarchists were not Communists. Makhno’s aim was a free Ukraine with an anarchist ‘government’. That is, an informal government that would be created whenever it was necessary, but generally non-existent. Since he was a Ukrainian for a free Ukraine, it is not surprising that his forces were made up of local Ukrainians. Also, that they were largely peasants, many of whom were former serfs. (Makno’s own grandparents had been serfs.)

As I suggested earlier, it is doubtful that Makhno had complete control over his ‘army”, probably not even over his own ‘generals’. (From what little I know of him, I also get the impression that he was a lot more idealistic – more drive by his sociological theories – than were the men in his inner circle. He was probably nothing but a common thief until a murder got him put in prison, where for at least part of his time there he was kept with some intellectual type political prisoners, through whom be became radicalized.)

One thing DOES come through, accurately, I suspect - the terror of this type of invasion, what the so-called "Kulags" experienced. (He was also not only targeting the Kulags - anyone who has more that you, but also the organized church. Both were seen as having stolen from the poor for their own benefit. Ostentatious mansions and church buildings.) But this is not the only place where atrocities of this nature have been carried out, or ARE being carried out. We can join the Jewish people and cry out "Never Again!", but as long as evil remains in the world, there will continue to be more 'agains'.

[temporal1]

More on Nestor Makhno and the slaughter of Mennonites - responses to the video.

The Nogai and Tatar are two separate nomadic tribes.

The videographer slaughters most names, both surnames and common German language first names.
(For instance, Toews is pronounced ‘tayves’ not ‘toes’.I can’t remember now how he messed up Gerhard.)

I have to wonder what his objective was. Was it anti-Russian? Anti-Ukrainian? I couldn’t tell. But he didn’t seem to know that Makhno was Ukrainian, and that the Anarchists were not Communists. Makhno’s aim was a free Ukraine with an anarchist ‘government’. That is, an informal government that would be created whenever it was necessary, but generally non-existent. Since he was a Ukrainian for a free Ukraine, it is not surprising that his forces were made up of local Ukrainians. Also, that they were largely peasants, many of whom were former serfs. (Makno’s own grandparents had been serfs.)

As I suggested earlier, it is doubtful that Makhno had complete control over his ‘army”, probably not even over his own ‘generals’. (From what little I know of him, I also get the impression that he was a lot more idealistic – more drive by his sociological theories – than were the men in his inner circle. He was probably nothing but a common thief until a murder got him put in prison, where for at least part of his time there he was kept with some intellectual type political prisoners, through whom be became radicalized.)

One thing DOES come through, accurately, I suspect - the terror of this type of invasion, what the so-called "Kulags" experienced. (He was also not only targeting the Kulags - anyone who has more that you, but also the organized church.

Both were seen as having stolen from the poor for their own benefit. Ostentatious mansions and church buildings.)

But this is not the only place where atrocities of this nature have been carried out, or ARE being carried out.

We can join the Jewish people and cry out "Never Again!",
but as long as evil remains in the world, there will continue to be more 'agains'.

Thanks Neto.

[barnhart]

Neto, 15 years ago I worked along side an electrician who spoke Russian but very little English. He was a member of a tribal group that suffered under Tzars, Revolutionaries, Soviets and Russians. I don't remember what group it was but I gathered they were quite warlike and ceremonial with lots of traditional dances. They were from the Crimea/Ukraine region. He had a fine 19th century mustache that twisted and turned up on the ends and talked of "going home" because the group might choose him to be a leader. Interesting guy.

[Neto]

Neto, 15 years ago I worked along side an electrician who spoke Russian but very little English. He was a member of a tribal group that suffered under Tzars, Revolutionaries, Soviets and Russians. I don't remember what group it was but I gathered they were quite warlike and ceremonial with lots of traditional dances. They were from the Crimea/Ukraine region. He had a fine 19th century mustache that twisted and turned up on the ends and talked of "going home" because the group might choose him to be a leader. Interesting guy.

I would venture to guess that he was one of those two tribal groups, either Tatar or Nogai. They were "forcibly civilized" by the Russian Empire after it took control of Ukraine and later also Crimea, to make way for the agricultural settlements of Jews & Lutherans from Germany, and Dutch Mennonites from what is now Poland (then Prussia). Then the Soviets drove them out as completely as they could manage. And after the fall of the USSR, they returned, mostly, I think, from the east side of the Ural mountains, and from China. Again in 2014, when the Russians took over Crimea from Ukraine. I imagine they would prefer self-rule, but seem to prefer Ukrainian rule over Russian rule, because they were welcomed back by Ukraine, and have been persecuted by Russia.

[temporal1]

P.268:

FEB 2024 / TUCKER CARLSON INTERVIEWS PUTIN

Page 10 / Tucker Carlson Departs Fox .. / Politics
viewtopic.php?t=5664&start=90

^^Many valid questions are raised due to this visit, many have been discussed in this topic, from P.1. Feb 24, 2022.

2 years of this; on the horizon, calls are for MORE !!!


THE MATH:
Peace is not profitable.
Protracted military conflicts / war, are profitable.

- - -

2019 / ABC / What to know about Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the comedian-turned president of Ukraine
Volodymyr Zelenskiy leads polls ahead of the first-round vote on Sunday.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/co ... d=62038641

2022 / Forbes Middle East / President Zelensky Is Not A Billionaire. So How Much Is He Worth?
https://www.forbesmiddleeast.com/leader ... s-he-worth
Not a billionaire? Merely a multi-millionaire?

“Exclusive: Tucker Carlson Interviews Vladimir Putin” / 2hr 7min

Description:
Watch Tucker's immediate reaction to the interview here: https://bit.ly/3SxeZBY

Tucker interviews Vladimir Putin in Moscow, Russia. February 6th, 2024.

(i’m 42 min in.)

[Josh]

temporal1,

Is there a reason you felt Carlson’s interview needed broadcast in this thread in addition to his own dedicated thread?