My viewing of this is that I don't believe we are perfect judges on who is saved and who is not saved. Just as the story at judgment day when people expressed to Jesus all the perceived spiritual things they did, and I don't doubt they fooled real followers, and Jesus said depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you. This tells me there are people who have not put their faith in what Jesus did to save them but rather are trusting in their own righteousness to save them. They may go through all the requirements of a local church and appear to us to be saved yet God alone knows their heart condition. Salvation is a matter of who we are trusting in. In Jesus and what He did to save us or in our own religious performance.Josh wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 5:52 pmI feel that Jesus is not the kind of saviour who would ignore someone who never "gets saved" in the first place, but somehow gives a free pass to someone who does get saved, knows the truth, and then rejects it and chooses to live in sin and rejects the gift of grace so freely offered.Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 5:18 pmCurious - have you ever looked into the OSAS arguments as presented with scriptures as in this link I gave ? In my experience I had not and grew up believing there were all kinds of things I could do that could cause me to lose my salvation. My salvation was very dependent on my performance and I lived in considerable fear that should I die with some unconfessed sin in my life that I would go to hell. Totally eternally insecure. Just saying whatever you chose to believe, I recommend you consider how the scriptures say we are secure in Him.
Of course, if someone doesn't believe in hell, eternal punishment, etc. that is a different discussion...
My overall view would be that saved people will be concerned about their performance as a believer because the Holy Spirit comes to live within a born again believer and that all believers will struggle with their flesh their entire lives. If they are truly saved their salvation is secure and one who is truly saved may backslide for a time and/or live in a degree of disobedience as a wayward sheep but they still belong to the Shepherd who is eagerly pursuing them to come back to the fold and restore fellowship with those who have not sought other pastures.
To me, the key issue is whether we can rightly judge others salvation or not. Some say we can, I'm not convinced of that. Some have judged me to not be saved as they think the kind of sin they believe I am living in is a sin that will not be forgiven at judgment day. And I could say something similar about them and how their sinning shows up and they will likely die with unconfessed sin too. But neither of us knows the fact of whether someone else knows God and He knows them in a saving way, imo.
I may think I have a good idea of whether they are saved or not by listening to what they think is most important to them being saved. If it is their works, their right living, their religious practises, their interest in worldly affairs, etc. then this could cast doubt in my mind that perhaps they have not been born again and are depending on their own righteousness to save them. However, they may be saved as they have a necessary faith in Jesus to save them but they still have doubt that if they sin and fall short in some area that they might lose their salvation. I don't know the heart condition of others so, imo, I should try to keep away from those judgments. If I feel concern over someone else's salvation I should pray for them and keep the focus on Jesus when I can in my conversations.
Regarding your statement that Jesus can't be giving 'a free pass to someone who does get saved, knows the truth, and then rejects it and chooses to live in sin and rejects the gift of grace so freely offered', I agree. But in the sense that this person was never born again in the first place. That, I believe, is where we basically differ. I think there very well could be emotional 'salvation' experiences some people have from all kinds of preaching and they may walk an aisle and repeat a 'sinner's prayer' and go out as lost as they came in. And also those who have been raised in churches that requires of them to live certain ways that they followed but they, too, were never actually born again. So, who is my salvation depending on ? Me or on Jesus ? I believe it is totally on Jesus and He is willing that none should perish but we all should come to repentance.