Amish gun dealer

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
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Josh
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Ken wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:21 pm So if the cops roll by these guys on the street corner of the average American city (or any other armed gang bangers or criminals, Black, White, Hispanic, etc.) What exactly can they do?

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In California the laws on the books would be that all of them could be arrested, unless they had an exceptionally good reason to be brandishing a weapon in public for some very narrow reasons (such as acting in a film)

Of course, California doesn't enforce laws like this and regularly doesn't even require bonds for criminals, so even if they are arrested, they're let go to offend again. Or they can just jump in a car and run off, since places like S.F. and Oakland have a policy of not chasing criminals in cars. A criminal car steal a car and take off and the police aren't allowed to chase them.

Policies like "stop and frisk" worked well to reduce crime in places like NYC and need to be brought back. It turns out that people that look and act suspicious often indeed do have contraband, outstanding arrest warrants, or aren't allowed to own a firearm and often ended up having an illegal gun on them. But those kind of things aren't allowed in NYC anymore. So instead, we have recent incidents like a gentleman who walked into a 7-11, stole candy, and when the worker tried to stop him, pulled out a gun and shot up the store. (NYC doesn't allow possession of handguns easily at all, so most of the people who have them are criminals.)

It really comes down to if you really want the government enforcing existing gun laws or not. Take a look at the recent roster of gun crime in Chicago and ask yourself what would happen if the gun laws were actually fairly enforced and the people breaking the law were rounded up off the streets and put in prison.
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Ken
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional under the 4th Amendment. So that is no longer an option in New York or California. But I'm not talking about those states which have low murder rates. Let's talk about say Missouri which has double the firearms homicide rate of those states.

1. If the police encounter these guys on the street they can't stop and ID them because there is no law requiring that anyone carry ID unless they are driving or flying.

2. They can't frisk them because of the 4th Amendment or run their records to see who they are and if they are felons.

3. They can't confiscate their weapons because permitless carry is legal in Missouri and brandishing firearms on the street corner is perfectly legal.

4. They can't check if the weapons are legal or legally bought because there is no gun registration or gun licensing requirement in Missouri so nothing to check against and no way to tell if a gun is legally acquired and legally owned.

Basically there is nothing the cops in Missouri can do about any guns they see on the street unless they actually witness them being used in the commission of a crime. So they just have to wait until someone is killed. And that is the result of deliberate policy.
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Josh
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Speaking of which, here's an update on an incident where gunmen using illegal guns ended up killing a toddler.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/jasper-wu-sho ... -penalties

Reduced sentences, they'll no longer face the death penalty or life without parole. As we all know, parole means murderers like these are back out on the street within a few years.

California is not serious about doing anything about murderers who use illegal guns to kill a toddler because they decided to have a shootout on a busy freeway.
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Josh
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Ken wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:41 pm3. They can't confiscate their weapons because permitless carry is legal in Missouri and brandishing firearms on the street corner is perfectly legal.
Where do you get these ideas? Brandishing a firearm or pointing it at people is a crime, or otherwise trying to use it to intimidate anyone.
4. They can't check if the weapons are legal or legally bought because there is no gun registration or gun licensing requirement in Missouri so nothing to check against and no way to tell if a gun is legally acquired and legally owned.
Sure they can. If it's an illegal machinegun, it's illegal. Machineguns have to be registered and the registration process includes signoff by a local law enforcement agent. They also can't be transported between states without notifying the ATF and getting sign off from a local law enforcement officer in whatever state they are being moved to.

So if the cops see you with a "Glock with a switch", they certainly can demand to see your registration paperwork. But in the case of a "Glock with a switch", they don't need to, because no Glocks have ever been legally registered in America to be owned by civilians. The only people who can have one are law enforcement, military (with special permission), or firearm dealers. So, your Missouri cop could ask to see a badge, military ID, or a firearm dealer's paperwork.
Basically there is nothing the cops in Missouri can do about any guns they see on the street unless they actually witness them being used in the commission of a crime. So they just have to wait until someone is killed. And that is the result of deliberate policy.
That's simply not true. As I pointed out above, unregistered machineguns are not legal. Every machinegun has to be registered and merely possessing one for any reason is enough to convict you of a crime to put you away for 20 years.
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Josh
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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The gun on top in the picture is what an illegal machinegun looks like.

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ohio jones
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Reuben King was apparently selling legal guns illegally. Not illegal guns, or they'd lock him up for that.

He's in Pennsylvania. Not Oregon, Ohio, California, NYC, or Chicago. Or Missouri (where did that come from anyway?).

Seriously, guys. :roll:
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P.42 - Re: Meanwhile, in Canada

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:11 pm Reuben King was apparently selling legal guns illegally. Not illegal guns, or they'd lock him up for that.

He's in Pennsylvania. Not Oregon, Ohio, California, NYC, or Chicago. Or Missouri (where did that come from anyway?).
Seriously, guys. :roll:
^^i believe R King was selling long guns, not hand guns, that are most frequently used in violent crime.
i haven’t followed this topic - before stumbling on it via a VIVA FREI video on Trudeaus’s 2022 use of Canada’s Emergencies Act.
viewtopic.php?t=91&start=410

Not Canada, i believe this is the case VIVA FREI mentions early in the video above: (P.42, Meanwhile, in Canada)

2023 / The Lancaster Patriot / AMISH FARMER'S GUNS CONFISCATED | Reuben King Stands Against Federal Gun Grabbers / 31min
✏️ Description:
Amishman Reuben King, a Lancaster County, Pennsylvania dairy farmer, was convicted by a federal jury in May 2023 for selling firearms without a license, despite there being no clear legal requirement that he needed a license to do so.


2024 Jan 24 / The Lancaster Patriot / Reuben King Sentenced with Probation, Fine
https://www.thelancasterpatriot.com/reu ... tion-fine/

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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Josh wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:50 pmBut in the case of a "Glock with a switch", they don't need to, because no Glocks have ever been legally registered in America to be owned by civilians. The only people who can have one are law enforcement, military (with special permission), or firearm dealers.
Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that no "Glocks with a switch" have ever been legally registered in American for civilians, not "no Glocks at all", correct?
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Re: Amish gun dealer

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Heirbyadoption wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:39 pm
Josh wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:50 pmBut in the case of a "Glock with a switch", they don't need to, because no Glocks have ever been legally registered in America to be owned by civilians. The only people who can have one are law enforcement, military (with special permission), or firearm dealers.
Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that no "Glocks with a switch" have ever been legally registered in American for civilians, not "no Glocks at all", correct?
Good point.. no Glock machineguns have ever been registered for civilian ownership. Generally speaking, guns aren't registered in America, except in a few states, and it would be factual to say some Glocks have been registered there at the state level. The "registration" I was speaking of is at the federal level.

Incidentally, this is the "switch" that is legally considered a machinegun (and thus illegal to possess):

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Re: Amish gun dealer

Post by Ken »

Handguns are pretty simple machines.

If we were actually serious about it we could prohibit the manufacture of guns that are easily converted to fully automatic with such trivial parts. I'm sure it would be quite possible to design firearms that are are not easily modified in such a way.

But we don't do that.
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