Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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Robert
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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Ken wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:34 pm Just like the 2nd Amendment was for colonial militias carrying muskets, not 17 year olds carrying AR-15s around town?
There has been a lot of Supreme Court precedent on the 2nd Amendment. There is none on the 14th. With no precedent, I tend to trust Mr. Dershowitz's legal advice. Even when it is against what I would want, I still tend to be very open to his input. He has been very consistent for most of his life. When someone stands on principle like that, I tend to respect them, even if I do not agree all the time.

I listened to him discuss an issue with Robert Barnes and actually accept and change his stance on an issue. Made me really respect him and I was quite impressed with Robert Barnes.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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The court case is heading to the Supreme Court. I'm seeing some outrageous rhetoric on it. Here is part of the fund-raising appeal from ACLJ.
The Colorado Supreme Court shockingly ruled that "President Trump is disqualified from holding the office of President" under the 14th Amendment. The first votes have already been cast in this presidential election, and the next primary is in just days, which is why we filed this emergency appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

If President Trump can be banned in one state, then he could be banned in every state – completely dismantling your fundamental constitutional right to vote, no matter who you vote for.

I've been arguing at the Supreme Court for more than 35 years, and THIS is the most dangerous attack on the Constitution I've ever seen. It's the gravest form of election interference and creates a constitutional crisis.

If we lose our right to vote, we lose our constitutional republic.
This somehow thinks that the Constitution's rules about who can be in office limit one's right to vote. I can vote for my cat, also, but the cat couldn't serve.

For reference, here is the relevant Constitutional text:
Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The legal questions I see are:
  1. Does the 14th Amendment apply only to Confederates or any insurrection?
  2. Is the presidency an office?
  3. Do states have the right to determine who is on their primary ballots?
A trial has already determined that Trump engaged in insurrection as a matter of fact. Appeals generally do not review factual determinations by a lower court.
1. The Constitution says insurrection, not the insurrection, so this does not just apply to the Confederacy.
2. The Constitution refers to the office of the presidency several times.
3. Here the Court could legitimately leave who is on the primary ballots up to the states. However an insurrectionist on the general ballot would seem disqualified as the vote is really for electors, and an elector would be giving aid to the insurrectionist.

I'm afraid the real question before the court is the political ramifications of their ruling. Would ruling that Trump is disqualified cause political turmoil or violence? Does a Justice lean toward Democrats or Republicans? Would Trump be an autocrat who would have no use for a Supreme Court? I don't think these are proper considerations for the Court.
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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I didn't know whether to post this in "I think it is funny" or here. It's a bit mean, but funny, and also addresses how the court will rule and why.

Image
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Josh
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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6. The defendant hasn’t been convicted of insurrection.
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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Josh wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:41 pm 6. The defendant hasn’t been convicted of insurrection.
The Colorado trial determined he was part of an insurrection, so this is a legally determined fact. There is nothing in the law or Constitution that calls for a conviction. This part of the 14th Amendment was used to keep those who had been US officers and then part of the Confederate rebellion from holding office. I do not think any convictions were needed but correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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JimFoxvog wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:54 pm
Josh wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:41 pm 6. The defendant hasn’t been convicted of insurrection.
The Colorado trial determined he was part of an insurrection, so this is a legally determined fact. There is nothing in the law or Constitution that calls for a conviction. This part of the 14th Amendment was used to keep those who had been US officers and then part of the Confederate rebellion from holding office. I do not think any convictions were needed but correct me if I am wrong.
Trump hasn’t been convicted of insurrection. He was tried once when President and wasn’t convicted.

I don’t think “star chambers” that deprive citizens of liberties and rights without a proper criminal trial are a good idea. Do you?
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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The SCOTUS ruling on RvW demonstrates, rule of law - doesn’t mean much.
It’s now pretty much a fun legal challenge to figure out how to appeal it, or dance around it.

DJT did NOT begin this practice. Look at law schools, and lucrative careers of defense attorneys.

It’s very old-fashioned to cling to any court ruling as if it were “the word of God,” when even The Word of God is openly+routinely disrespected.

As well, it doesn’t make sense to cherry-pick rulings you love, while dismissing ones you don’t.

RvW has put a flood lamp on it.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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temporal1 wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:17 pm The SCOTUS ruling on RvW demonstrates, rule of law - doesn’t mean much.
It’s now pretty much a fun legal challenge to figure out how to appeal it, or dance around it.

DJT did NOT begin this practice. Look at law schools, and lucrative careers of defense attorneys.

It’s very old-fashioned to cling to any court ruling as if it were “the word of God,” when even The Word of God is openly+routinely disrespected.

As well, it doesn’t make sense to cherry-pick rulings you love, while dismissing ones you don’t.

RvW has put a flood lamp on it.
Here now is a prime example of FORMAL DISRESPECT OF SCOTUS rulings: WHITE HOUSE LEADING

Jan 22 2024 / Biden administration announces new abortion initiatives on Roe anniversary
https://www.aol.com/news/biden-administ ... 00604.html

In my view, the RvW overturn had logical, valid basis in new medical science, including real time medical photography+video, documenting vibrant human life - at the time of conception and every second following. 1972 RvW was just before these new advances.

New science, new evidence, routinely validates revisiting court cases. Not mob rule. Courts are meant to prevent mob rule.

(For those who demand tangible proof of human life) - ignoring what all mankind everywhere knew, Christian and not:
humans beget humans, and nothing else. The most remote human tribes on earth know humans beget humans, and nothing else.

When the legal system can be sooo compromised as this, what difference does “some judge in Colorado” make?

i’m not describing “what i want,” i’m describing what is evident for all to witness.
The courts are not respected, and, presently, this is led by the highest office in the country: POTUS+friends.

i’m pretty sure, when i was young, U.S. top leaders modeled respect for courts, even when they didn’t rule as “wanted.”
That was then.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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Josh wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:36 pm I don’t think “star chambers” that deprive citizens of liberties and rights without a proper criminal trial are a good idea. Do you?
Who is being deprived of liberties and rights? If a court had found that Obama was adopted from two African parents without US citizenship and therefore couldn't be president would that have been a lack of conviction so he could still serve as president?

Here's what I find on "star chambers":
star chamber
A court or tribunal held in secret that engages in arbitrary procedures, especially resulting in particularly harsh punishments.https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Star+Chamber
The trial that determined Trump had engaged in insurrection and was not eligible to be on the ballot was an open trial with both sides presenting evidence in court and no one was punished.

Here is the Colorado Supreme Court ruling for those interested:
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/s ... 3SA300.pdf
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Re: Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

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It’s not a good at all for a civil court to start making decisions about criminal acts to deprive citizens of their liberties. If Trump is so guilty of insurrection (after being found “not guilty” already), then have a criminal trial.

Obama is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with criminal acts.
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