Social Security ....The monthly Check...yes or no

[Josh]

You can file a tax return without listing your SSN. You’re supposed to file for and use an ITIN if you can’t get an SSN.

Otherwise doing this subjects you to a modest fine.

A few groups hold a religious objection to getting assigned SS numbers, so when they apply to be exempt, they do issue a number but don’t print or give them the card. They file their taxes with no number on them and they’re manually matched by name and address. (This is all found in the SSA and IRS’s employee manuals, which are public documents.)

You can open a bank account without an SSN although the easiest way would be to open one on behalf of corporation or LLC. In my state you may start a company without even disclosing an SSN. Of course, to file that entity’s taxes, you’d need an EIN… unless you want to pay the fine (I think it’s $50) for filing your corp’s return with no EIN.

Whilst I respect their beliefs and I can’t really think of any reason to do this.

[JohnHurt]

You can file a tax return without listing your SSN. You’re supposed to file for and use an ITIN if you can’t get an SSN.

Otherwise doing this subjects you to a modest fine.

A few groups hold a religious objection to getting assigned SS numbers, so when they apply to be exempt, they do issue a number but don’t print or give them the card. They file their taxes with no number on them and they’re manually matched by name and address. (This is all found in the SSA and IRS’s employee manuals, which are public documents.)

You can open a bank account without an SSN although the easiest way would be to open one on behalf of corporation or LLC. In my state you may start a company without even disclosing an SSN. Of course, to file that entity’s taxes, you’d need an EIN… unless you want to pay the fine (I think it’s $50) for filing your corp’s return with no EIN.

Whilst I respect their beliefs and I can’t really think of any reason to do this.

It is a real hassle to be outside the system.

Yes, use the ITIN by filing a W-7 (which is what some of the illegals do), or file an SS-5 and get a SSN - and pay your taxes.

Of if you think the Government is actually "Satan", then avoid all contracts with them and don't support them at all.

I think my son's in-laws are something along the line of the "Kingdom of Heaven" group. Their dad made up his own driver's license and license plate and said he was from another kingdom. He got pulled over and hassled by the cops "a lot". He changed his first and last name, and the names of his wife and children. His children never had drivers licenses and mostly drove the back roads before it got dark. They all worked odd jobs, like fixing someone's car for much less than the "regular" mechanics, or mowing your lawn, computer repair, etc.

My son's wife has "come in from the cold" on this, and she got her birth certificate, DL, SSN etc. after her father died. They also got medical insurance and got legally married. She has come a long way, my son has been very patient on this.

I had several other friends that were outside the system up until 911 - Sept 11, 2001. The laws changed and it became nearly impossible to operate after that. One of them ran a construction company, and couldn't do it anymore, as he gets audited. Now he is competing against construction companies that hire illegals and don't get audited. I guess they have relaxed the rules a bit.

The corporation or LLC is a great idea. I set up one in Wyoming for almost nothing, and use it as the parent company for my business for the protection it provides.

[JohnHurt]

What's wrong with the Social Security system is that it is "involuntary", like all other forms of Socialism. You can't "opt out" and take another path.

It is like public schools, when your child moves to another school, the "Local Education Authority" or "LEA" money, which is your tax money, will follow the child and the new school will get the funds. School vouchers would let the LEA money (your tax money) follow the child into private schools, or religious schools. They won't do this, because the public schools are inferior and no one would use them. So the public school system, with its "Evolution, Critical Race Theory", and all the other garbage they teach, depends on "enforced socialism" to survive - otherwise the no one would go to public schools.

The same is true of Social Security. If you could pick which mutual funds, gold bars, real estate, or other investments you wanted for your mandatory 15% "old age" payment/tax, then no one would pick Social Security, as it would be a bad investment. Especially if you don't live to 65 years old and lose everything when you die at 59.

Also, there are no real Social Security funds or bank account holding your 15% payments. Rather, the payments you make today are going directly to the older people that are drawing Social Security. That is, the later investors are paying off the earlier investors and no profit is being made. This is the definition of a "ponzi scheme" that is doomed to fail.

A friend of mine works with the Dept of Human Services. He said that older Chinese nationals that have never paid into the Social Security system are able to draw against it, as their children are paying SS and they are all on some "family" plan or something. I don't understand it, but I am certain the SS system is being abused.

It will definitely go "bust" at some point, like all socialist programs inevitably do. So that is another good reason to let people legally find an alternative for their 15% retirement funds / tax.

[Ken]

Everyone I know that is SS exempt, still has a SS#. Having a number and being exempt from paying SS tax, aren’t in opposition to each other.

These days they sign you up for social security at birth. Well, for our daughters the nurses come around with the paperwork for the birth certificate and social security card at the same time and you just sign all that paperwork and put down the child's name on both. I suppose one can refuse to do the social security paperwork, I don't think it is required by law. But it makes it simpler for everything from elementary school registration to college applications since the SS number is a convenient unique number to distinguish all the other hundreds or thousands of people with your same exact name.

[RZehr]

Everyone I know that is SS exempt, still has a SS#. Having a number and being exempt from paying SS tax, aren’t in opposition to each other.

These days they sign you up for social security at birth. Well, for our daughters the nurses come around with the paperwork for the birth certificate and social security card at the same time and you just sign all that paperwork and put down the child's name on both. I suppose one can refuse to do the social security paperwork, I don't think it is required by law. But it makes it simpler for everything from elementary school registration to college applications since the SS number is a convenient unique number to distinguish all the other hundreds or thousands of people with your same exact name.

Yes, it does make it simpler to have a number. That’s why we get the number. And it is not mandatory. But I did elect to apply for a number at the birth of each of my children. If they opt out of SS when they are 18 years old (or ever. I don’t think they would earlier than that.), having a number is inconsequential to becoming exempt.

[Josh]

Of course, when SS started, they have assurances they would not use the number for identification purposes.

[Ken]

Of course, when SS started, they have assurances they would not use the number for identification purposes.

The alternative is a national ID like most other countries.

Which would you rather have?

[Josh]

Of course, when SS started, they have assurances they would not use the number for identification purposes.

The alternative is a national ID like most other countries.

Which would you rather have?

The alternative is not having one at all.

[JayP]

This is at best am unproductive conversation, at worst it can cause readers to end upon an illegal or very troublesome situation.
As I stated, I am familiar with form 4029. I once held an IRS approval for one, and now hold a formal revocation of my 4029.

If you are a member of one of the IRS approved churches and meet the requirements great!

But if not do NOT try to avoid the SS system. Render unto Caesar.

When folks, including well meaning ones, try to explain why as a Christian you do not have to be in SS, or pay taxes, or have car insurance, etc. just hold your hands over your ears and run away.

I cannot tell you who is and is not getting into heaven, but I am confident it will not involve any of these criteria.

[steve-in-kville]

This is at best am unproductive conversation, at worst it can cause readers to end upon an illegal or very troublesome situation.
As I stated, I am familiar with form 4029. I once held an IRS approval for one, and now hold a formal revocation of my 4029.

I'm in the process of this myself but keep getting the run around.