College Turmoil

[Josh]

I’m not sure I know enough about an Israel to proffer a cogent response. I read and listen to a number of Jewish commentators that have, in the past few months, made the point that Israel, for all of its flaws and divisions, is a highly cohesive, trusting and “happy” society. They also point out that Israelis feel a deep sense of purpose in their existence as a country. Something that seems to be missing in the American psyche. I’m not sure that these things alone are enough to counteract the spirit of “desecration” inherent in the Western-Liberal mind but it does seem to me that the U.S., a country that is Liberal par excelence, is much further down the road of desecration/de-creation than many others.

Something I learned once I started spending a lot of time in Israel is that Arabs I got to know - or, as they would call themselves, Nazarenes - also feel a deep sense of purpose in their existence and in their land. Some of them have been there (in their view) for 2,000 years, through many generations. The same is also true of Gazans.

The Israeli identity, on the other hand, is truly a proposition nation: it is one that was recently formed, complete with a synthetic language. I have a difficult time not viewing it as anything other than modernist liberalism per excelence, also being well down the road to identity and nationhood and peoplehood itself being entirely a product of individual choices. In a very true sense, the State of Israel and the United States of America are twins.

[Josh]

Now a Harvard donor who made the largest donation in its history is suspending donations over complaints about its president's perceived lack of condemnation of antisemitism as well as some possible issues with plagiarism.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ckout=true

Of course, as we all know, this really means nothing, as Harvard is still richest in US with $51 billion endowment.

These complaints of plagiarism have been well-documented for some time, yet the donors suddenly started caring in the last month.

Interesting.

[ohio jones]

These complaints of plagiarism have been well-documented for some time, yet the donors suddenly started caring in the last month.

Interesting.

Reminds me of another famous case of plagiarism, which was a big deal in 1988 but was no longer an issue 20 years later (or now) despite alleged continued occurrences.

[Ken]

I’m not sure I know enough about an Israel to proffer a cogent response. I read and listen to a number of Jewish commentators that have, in the past few months, made the point that Israel, for all of its flaws and divisions, is a highly cohesive, trusting and “happy” society. They also point out that Israelis feel a deep sense of purpose in their existence as a country. Something that seems to be missing in the American psyche. I’m not sure that these things alone are enough to counteract the spirit of “desecration” inherent in the Western-Liberal mind but it does seem to me that the U.S., a country that is Liberal par excelence, is much further down the road of desecration/de-creation than many others.

Something I learned once I started spending a lot of time in Israel is that Arabs I got to know - or, as they would call themselves, Nazarenes - also feel a deep sense of purpose in their existence and in their land. Some of them have been there (in their view) for 2,000 years, through many generations. The same is also true of Gazans.

The Israeli identity, on the other hand, is truly a proposition nation: it is one that was recently formed, complete with a synthetic language. I have a difficult time not viewing it as anything other than modernist liberalism per excelence, also being well down the road to identity and nationhood and peoplehood itself being entirely a product of individual choices. In a very true sense, the State of Israel and the United States of America are twins.

I was curious about this so I looked it up. There are a total of 195 countries on earth.

I count 107 of them that were formed more recently than the state of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _formation It is kind of hard to count exactly because it depends on definitions. But it is clear that Israel is actually above the median in terms of the length of its history as an independent sovereign state.

[RZehr]

It doesn't mean "nothing"

But if they give their money instead to some other more worthy cause then something good will have come of it.

I was just kidding you a little. I agree with that.

Honestly, institutions who let themselves be manipulated by donors get what they deserve. Whether it is Harvard, Sattler University, or some religious charity.

Who is Harvard in the business to serve? Fickle billionaire donors or the next generation of students and future leaders?

The next generation of fickle donor billionaires.

[Josh]

I was curious about this so I looked it up. There are a total of 195 countries on earth.

I count 107 of them that were formed more recently than the state of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _formation It is kind of hard to count exactly because it depends on definitions. But it is clear that Israel is actually above the median in terms of the length of its history as an independent sovereign state.

Much like many other countries so recently formed, Israel basically is a colony formed by Europeans who came up with excuses why they could drive the people already there off their land. And much like other colonists who did the same, they found all kinds of religious excuses for it.

In the present day the excuse is “We’re a much better democracy than the native people.” Perhaps true. But it’s no different than arguing mass genocide of Native Americans was OK because many to them were warlike people who certainly didn’t have organised, liberal democracy - as if that makes a group of people eligible for mass slaughter.

[Ken]

I was curious about this so I looked it up. There are a total of 195 countries on earth.

I count 107 of them that were formed more recently than the state of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _formation It is kind of hard to count exactly because it depends on definitions. But it is clear that Israel is actually above the median in terms of the length of its history as an independent sovereign state.

Much like many other countries so recently formed, Israel basically is a colony formed by Europeans who came up with excuses why they could drive the people already there off their land. And much like other colonists who did the same, they found all kinds of religious excuses for it.

In the present day the excuse is “We’re a much better democracy than the native people.” Perhaps true. But it’s no different than arguing mass genocide of Native Americans was OK because many to them were warlike people who certainly didn’t have organised, liberal democracy - as if that makes a group of people eligible for mass slaughter.

Only about 30% of Israelis are of European descent.

Unless you are referring to the Ottoman Turks who ruled the place for 400 years and I suppose could sort of be considered Europeans. Part of Turkey is in Europe and at its height, the Ottoman Empire spanned a lot of Europe.

[Josh]

I was curious about this so I looked it up. There are a total of 195 countries on earth.

I count 107 of them that were formed more recently than the state of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _formation It is kind of hard to count exactly because it depends on definitions. But it is clear that Israel is actually above the median in terms of the length of its history as an independent sovereign state.

Much like many other countries so recently formed, Israel basically is a colony formed by Europeans who came up with excuses why they could drive the people already there off their land. And much like other colonists who did the same, they found all kinds of religious excuses for it.

In the present day the excuse is “We’re a much better democracy than the native people.” Perhaps true. But it’s no different than arguing mass genocide of Native Americans was OK because many to them were warlike people who certainly didn’t have organised, liberal democracy - as if that makes a group of people eligible for mass slaughter.

Only about 30% of Israelis are of European descent.

Yes, a lot of Arabs have managed to be Israeli citizens which means they get treated better. Still second class citizens.

The settlers in 1949 were almost entirely Europeans.

Unless you are referring to the Ottoman Turks who ruled the place for 400 years and I suppose could sort of be considered Europeans. Part of Turkey is in Europe and at its height, the Ottoman Empire spanned a lot of Europe.

I wasn’t. The Ottoman empire had ceased to exist by then and very few Turks lived in Palestine anyway.

[Ken]

Here's one university and university administrator who doesn't seem to be following the rest

[RZehr]

Here's one university and university administrator who doesn't seem to be following the rest

That is what Ivy League sounds like to the South.