The real question is whether there is ANY solution after 75 years of quarreling. And if there is, what it looks like.
Personally I have yet to see any other solution proposed that is not some form of a 2-state solution.
The real question is whether there is ANY solution after 75 years of quarreling. And if there is, what it looks like.
I don't think that's true. Arab attitudes toward Jews were quite different before Jews started taking over the land that Arabs lived in and evicted them from their homelands. And committing more atrocities toward Arabs will not reduce the level of anti-Semitism.Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:49 pm I'm curious if you're aware that Hamas and Co want the Jews eradicated, not just moved out of the country...? Anti-semitism is inherently about the people, not the place...
Apples and oranges, or at least Granny Smiths to Golden Delicious. We Menno descendants have no cultural memory nor ethnic identity tied to God promising us the land that is southern Ukraine....Josh wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:45 pmMore Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel and many have dual citizenship. For whatever reasons they want to have their own country and many are willing to fight this out.AndersonD wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:42 pmI am always looking for simple solutions. Allow the Jews to immigrate into the US where they are safe and protected, and adios to a Jewish nation.Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:49 pm I'm curious if you're aware that Hamas and Co want the Jews eradicated, not just moved out of the country...? Anti-semitism is inherently about the people, not the place... None of these conflicts are justified for the Christian, but it seems a bit simplistic, if not also disingenuous, to imply that the issue (and a potential resolution, peaceful solution, etc) is simply about land in this case... It's "drive the Jews into the sea", not "drive the Jews back to Europe". And nothing is ever mentioned about swimming lessons first.
It is sort of like if we Mennonites were attempting to retake southern Ukraine / new Russian territory as our “homeland”.
We aren't in the old dispensation anymore, bro. You premillennial or something?Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:28 pmApples and oranges, or at least Granny Smiths to Golden Delicious. We Menno descendants have no cultural memory nor ethnic identity tied to God promising us the land that is southern Ukraine....Josh wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:45 pmMore Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel and many have dual citizenship. For whatever reasons they want to have their own country and many are willing to fight this out.
It is sort of like if we Mennonites were attempting to retake southern Ukraine / new Russian territory as our “homeland”.
Unashamedly. Nevertheless, that's sort of irrelevant to the fact that the Jewish people in 2023 do still have that cultural memory/identity of the land being promised to them by God, whereas we Anabaptist folk have no such cultural memory/identity based upon a promise. And the Jewish folks still hold that identity today regardless of whether we as Christians think God promised it to them under one dispensation or another or in perpetuity or whatever.AndersonD wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:39 pmWe aren't in the old dispensation anymore, bro. You premillennial or something?Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:28 pmApples and oranges, or at least Granny Smiths to Golden Delicious. We Menno descendants have no cultural memory nor ethnic identity tied to God promising us the land that is southern Ukraine....Josh wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:45 pmMore Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel and many have dual citizenship. For whatever reasons they want to have their own country and many are willing to fight this out.
It is sort of like if we Mennonites were attempting to retake southern Ukraine / new Russian territory as our “homeland”.
Apples and oranges, or at least Granny Smiths to Golden Delicious. We Menno descendants have no cultural memory nor ethnic identity tied to God promising us the land that is southern Ukraine....Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:28 pm More Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel and many have dual citizenship. For whatever reasons they want to have their own country and many are willing to fight this out.
It is sort of like if we Mennonites were attempting to retake southern Ukraine / new Russian territory as our “homeland”.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:49 am More Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel and many have dual citizenship. For whatever reasons they want to have their own country and many are willing to fight this out. It is sort of like if we Mennonites were attempting to retake southern Ukraine / new Russian territory as our “homeland”.
Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:28 pmApples and oranges, or at least Granny Smiths to Golden Delicious. We Menno descendants have no cultural memory nor ethnic identity tied to God promising us the land that is southern Ukraine....
While I realize your downplay here is an attempt to defend your analogy, God making a promise to the Jews really is a whole different sort of cultural memory than sentimental feelings about our ancestors first settling land in the Ukraine/Russia. And it actually has a significant bearing on the issue at hand - the Jews consider the land their birthright by the mouth of God, not because of their own hard work on some nice Russian ground they were invited to farm... I take back the Granny vs Golden - it truly is apples to oranges.Josh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:49 amAnd that has zero bearing on whether or not 1 group of people really had a right or it was sensible for them to go and drive out people who'd been living in the Levant for dozens of generations. And actually, many Russian Mennonites do have cultural memory and ethnic identity tied to what was then Russia. They settled the land from scratch - nobody was even living there. They were the first settlers.
It is true.Bootstrap wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:09 pmI don't think that's true. Arab attitudes toward Jews were quite different before Jews started taking over the land that Arabs lived in and evicted them from their homelands. And committing more atrocities toward Arabs will not reduce the level of anti-Semitism.Heirbyadoption wrote:Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:49 pm I'm curious if you're aware that Hamas and Co want the Jews eradicated, not just moved out of the country...? Anti-semitism is inherently about the people, not the place...