Cultural Separation from Parents

[Josh]

You are quoting a NEW TESTAMENT verse about divorce and not family.

Do you really not know Scripture and what Jesus said?

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

It certainly seems that way from your argument with Josh too

Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

All we know is that Jesus defied the authority of his parents at the age of 12. And then the Biblical record goes completely silent until he begins his ministry at the age of 30. We know nothing of the teenage Jesus or what his family life was like, if he even had one.

Jesus explained that he had to be about his father’s business. When one is the Son of God, a few details about one’s growing up years do sometimes change a little.

[Ken]

God’s plan is for either man and woman to be married, 1 husband, 1 wife. Or to be single people, like Jesus was.

Sinful, wicked man has strayed from those plans.

Funny how there is not one single verse to that effect anywhere in the Old Testament. And many to the contrary. Which I assume is still relevant since you like to quote Genesis.

It took the pagan Romans conquering Judea in 63 BC to bring monogamy to the Hebrew world. And it took them at least 300 years to make it really stick as there are historical records of Jewish communities maintaining polygamy in defiance of Roman law up into the 3rd Century.

[Soloist]

God’s plan is for either man and woman to be married, 1 husband, 1 wife. Or to be single people, like Jesus was.

Sinful, wicked man has strayed from those plans.

Funny how there is not one single verse to that effect anywhere in the Old Testament. And many to the contrary. Which I assume is still relevant since you like to quote Genesis.

You really need to read Scripture more.

[Ken]

God’s plan is for either man and woman to be married, 1 husband, 1 wife. Or to be single people, like Jesus was.

Sinful, wicked man has strayed from those plans.

Funny how there is not one single verse to that effect anywhere in the Old Testament. And many to the contrary. Which I assume is still relevant since you like to quote Genesis.

You really need to read Scripture more.

Feel free to show us in the Old Testament where the modern nuclear family is described as God's will or God's plan as Josh claims. The traditional family as depicted throughout the Old Testament is vastly different from that.

[Soloist]

Funny how there is not one single verse to that effect anywhere in the Old Testament. And many to the contrary. Which I assume is still relevant since you like to quote Genesis.

You really need to read Scripture more.

Feel free to show us in the Old Testament where the modern nuclear family is described as God's will or God's plan as Josh claims.

I already did Ken. You decided to ignore it just as you did the prior time we had this discussion.

[Ken]

You really need to read Scripture more.

Feel free to show us in the Old Testament where the modern nuclear family is described as God's will or God's plan as Josh claims.

I already did Ken. You decided to ignore it just as you did the prior time we had this discussion.

You cited a verse from Matthew where Jesus explicitly prohibits divorce without exception. Which some here seem to conveniently ignore.

[Soloist]

Feel free to show us in the Old Testament where the modern nuclear family is described as God's will or God's plan as Josh claims.

I already did Ken. You decided to ignore it just as you did the prior time we had this discussion.

You cited a verse from Matthew where Jesus prohibits divorce without exception.

And I again say you need to read the Scriptures. You shouldn’t need to be led by the hand to understand Jesus was quoting Old Testament Scripture that they were familiar with and you can be to if you read the Scriptures.

[ken_sylvania]

This is what we might call reading our own modern biases and ideological priors back onto history

The only point I'm making is that people who have not fit in the male/female binary have always existed and that some cultures recognized their existence.

Reading the modern nuclear heterosexual family as the universal historical norm is also reading our own modern biases and ideological priors back into history.

Seriously? Perhaps true in the sense that the nuclear family vs extended family is a more modern concept, but for a supposed Christian to try to lump "heterosexual" in there, in a discussion like this, seems to be making a mockery of Jesus' words about God's plan for family.

And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

[ken_sylvania]

God’s plan is for either man and woman to be married, 1 husband, 1 wife. Or to be single people, like Jesus was.

Sinful, wicked man has strayed from those plans.

Funny how there is not one single verse to that effect anywhere in the Old Testament. And many to the contrary. Which I assume is still relevant since you like to quote Genesis.

It took the pagan Romans conquering Judea in 63 BC to bring monogamy to the Hebrew world. And it took them at least 300 years to make it really stick as there are historical records of Jewish communities maintaining polygamy in defiance of Roman law up into the 3rd Century.

Do you reject Jesus' word on the matter?

[ken_sylvania]

God sent Jesus to be in a family: Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. A perfect family, actually.

And according to scriptures, Jesus left his family and the care and authority of his parents, and began to make his own independent life decisions separately from them at the age of 12. Which would be middle school (6th grade) in today's world.

You really need to do a bit more reading.

And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.