No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

[Ken]

Why make us people who are white suffer today for something we had zero involvement in

How are white people suffering? Is feeling bad or guilty about the past suffering?

Over 40 billion dollars giving out by the Canadian government because of mass graves that don’t exist is 2x the amount of money it would take to feed all the starving and malnourished people in the world. This helps inflation grow here that is so high that my cost of living has doubled to the point of working two full time jobs to feed my family who then I rarely see. I’d be happy to rarely see my family if I knew it was going to build the kingdom of God but instead other “Christians” are distracted by “social injustices” and money rather than wanting to be active in actually personally helping people! We are all suffering! So we should all shut our mouths and do something. I do spend time with these people personally and frankly your not helping them out of their distress by focusing on social injustices not on personal responsibility but helping them stay their…
Time to quit spending time with the armchair quarterbacks…

The Canadian government isn't giving out $40 billion because of mass graves. That is a false canard.

The $40 billion child welfare settlement you are referring to had absolutely nothing to do with mass graves. In fact they aren't even mentioned anywhere in the settlement. $20 billion of it is compensation for historic discrimination, child removals, and illegal underfunding of child welfare spending for First Nations. The second $20 billion is for future long-term reform of the First Nations child welfare and education system. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/first- ... -1.6302636 This is long-term spending that will be rolled out over many years.

And no, you couldn't remotely come close to ending hunger on the entire planet with $20 billion. You couldn't even end it here in the US for that amount. Just here in the US the SNAP (food stamp) program has an annual budget of $183 BILLION and there is still plenty of hunger here.

[Szdfan]

Why make us people who are white suffer today for something we had zero involvement in

How are white people suffering? Is feeling bad or guilty about the past suffering?

Over 40 billion dollars giving out by the Canadian government because of mass graves that don’t exist is 2x the amount of money it would take to feed all the starving and malnourished people in the world. This helps inflation grow here that is so high that my cost of living has doubled to the point of working two full time jobs to feed my family who then I rarely see. I’d be happy to rarely see my family if I knew it was going to build the kingdom of God but instead other “Christians” are distracted by “social injustices” and money rather than wanting to be active in actually personally helping people! We are all suffering! So we should all shut our mouths and do something. I do spend time with these people personally and frankly your not helping them out of their distress by focusing on social injustices not on personal responsibility but helping them stay their…
Time to quit spending time with the armchair quarterbacks…

Which mission are you involved in? What do you do for this mission?

[ken_sylvania]

Yes, self-examination is absulutely necessary for our daily life, and it certainly is important to consider whether various aspects of our culture are truly better, or if they are just different.

What is the purpose of going to all nations and preaching the gospel if we have nothing better to offer the heathen that what they already have?

I don't disagree with that, but who decides that what is being offered is actually better? Was acculturating indigenous people to Western culture really offering them something better or was it confusing the Gospel of Jesus Christ with Western culture?

There of course have been many different types of "missionaries" over the years, but I think it's fair to say that it wasn't the work of Christian missionaries that traumatized native communities or that contributed to the wretchedness in communities today.

I disagree. While I think Christian missionaries in the past were probably sincere in their desire to reach indigenous people, they also carried with them their biases and prejudices. There's plenty of documentation that Christians were directly involved in US policy to wipe out indigenous culture and they saw that acculturation as part of the mission to spread the Gospel. One of the things I noticed in seminary is that there has been a lot of soul-searching in missiology and an attempt to make corrections to the past by emphasizing culturally literate forms of evangelism instead of trying to force everyone into the same box.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, even when presented by imperfect humans, is better than spriritual ignorance no matter the culture. I'm not pretending that mission work has been done perfectly, but Christian missionaries did not develop the US policy to wipe out indigenous culture. Maybe you think that it would have been better for the native people to retain their spirit worship, sun dances, and all the rest of their cultural trappings, but I cannot agree.

[NedFlanders]

Ken and Szdfan you two have reminded me of how grateful I am for the public school system. Growing up atheist in the public school system I was harassed and discriminated against by my high school teachers - I bused in from a remote town. Teachers constantly told us they expected poor behaviour, that we’d amount to nothing and the vice principal told me I was second leader of a gang and the leader of this made up gang could do whatever he wanted because they would pass him just so he wouldn’t be in the school anymore. One teacher I always got poor grades in I compared test scores with the top student and we were 1-2% different on marks. Imagine testing high every single year in school and college as top student but one teacher who said I was useless and would never amount to anything got 51% in his class…. It was so bad one time a bully and harassment talk came to the school and me not a public speaker stood up and called out the teachers in the whole school for the harassment and discrimination we were getting - they all just hung there heads - it was true. Sadly, because of that harassment and then being called out afterward they never spoke badly to us again but they also never got us in trouble for anything again. The world is sad it’s like if I have a social injustice against me it turns into an excuse to misbehave - that is not what I wanted. I was dumbfounded but learned quite the lesson.

But - Thank God!!!

When real life came I learned how misinformed and disillusional public school teachers are and it was absolutely instrumental in seeking truth and eventually finding Christ. And then homeschooling to keep our children from such ungodliness. And then Mennonites. I grateful for my public school experience.

[temporal1]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, even when presented by imperfect humans, is better than spriritual ignorance no matter the culture.

I'm not pretending that mission work has been done perfectly, but Christian missionaries did not develop the US policy to wipe out indigenous culture. Maybe you think that it would have been better for the native people to retain their spirit worship, sun dances, and all the rest of their cultural trappings, but I cannot agree.

Shocking as it is, present U.S. gov prioritizes domestic+foreign homosexual/carnal missions, regardless of existing faith or culture.
As if nothing was learned about respect of others, ever.

[Ken]

Ken and Szdfan you two have reminded me of how grateful I am for the public school system. Growing up atheist in the public school system I was harassed and discriminated against by my high school teachers - I bused in from a remote town. Teachers constantly told us they expected poor behaviour, that we’d amount to nothing and the vice principal told me I was second leader of a gang and the leader of this made up gang could do whatever he wanted because they would pass him just so he wouldn’t be in the school anymore. One teacher I always got poor grades in I compared test scores with the top student and we were 1-2% different on marks. Imagine testing high every single year in school and college as top student but one teacher who said I was useless and would never amount to anything got 51% in his class…. It was so bad one time a bully and harassment talk came to the school and me not a public speaker stood up and called out the teachers in the whole school for the harassment and discrimination we were getting - they all just hung there heads - it was true. Sadly, because of that harassment and then being called out afterward they never spoke badly to us again but they also never got us in trouble for anything again. The world is sad it’s like if I have a social injustice against me it turns into an excuse to misbehave - that is not what I wanted. I was dumbfounded but learned quite the lesson.

But - Thank God!!!

When real life came I learned how misinformed and disillusional public school teachers are and it was absolutely instrumental in seeking truth and eventually finding Christ. And then homeschooling to keep our children from such ungodliness. And then Mennonites. I grateful for my public school experience.

You have come here and made various demonstrably false claims. Namely that:

1. Native American religions foster the sexual abuse of children
2. That the recent $40 billion settlement in Canada was the result of claims about mass graves
3. That you are suffering unfairly because indigenous First Nations groups are asserting their legal and constitutional rights and asking the government to meet its obligations.

Somehow I don't think your public education is to blame for any of that. But then again, I could be wrong.

[NedFlanders]

Ken and Szdfan you two have reminded me of how grateful I am for the public school system. Growing up atheist in the public school system I was harassed and discriminated against by my high school teachers - I bused in from a remote town. Teachers constantly told us they expected poor behaviour, that we’d amount to nothing and the vice principal told me I was second leader of a gang and the leader of this made up gang could do whatever he wanted because they would pass him just so he wouldn’t be in the school anymore. One teacher I always got poor grades in I compared test scores with the top student and we were 1-2% different on marks. Imagine testing high every single year in school and college as top student but one teacher who said I was useless and would never amount to anything got 51% in his class…. It was so bad one time a bully and harassment talk came to the school and me not a public speaker stood up and called out the teachers in the whole school for the harassment and discrimination we were getting - they all just hung there heads - it was true. Sadly, because of that harassment and then being called out afterward they never spoke badly to us again but they also never got us in trouble for anything again. The world is sad it’s like if I have a social injustice against me it turns into an excuse to misbehave - that is not what I wanted. I was dumbfounded but learned quite the lesson.

But - Thank God!!!

When real life came I learned how misinformed and disillusional public school teachers are and it was absolutely instrumental in seeking truth and eventually finding Christ. And then homeschooling to keep our children from such ungodliness. And then Mennonites. I grateful for my public school experience.

You have come here and made various demonstrably false claims. Namely that:

1. Native American religions foster the sexual abuse of children
2. That the recent $40 billion settlement in Canada was the result of claims about mass graves
3. That you are suffering unfairly because indigenous First Nations groups are asserting their legal and constitutional rights and asking the government to meet its obligations.

Somehow I don't think your public education is to blame for any of that. But then again, I could be wrong.

Haha.. Ken you’re such a legalist.

What I know of native culture is that drugs and fornication is rampant. No need for you to jump to conclusions over my personal experiences. Maybe it is just chance it is not this way in other native groups - I hope so!

People can put on paper whatever they want - I’m talking about what influences reality.

And my example was to show the distraction off of the suffer that is occurring around the world right now at the PRESENT, rather than past events that you or I were even a part of.

Not very congenial of you to find fault instead of looking for solutions - is that rather the difference between what you think I am saying is false?

[Ken]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, even when presented by imperfect humans, is better than spriritual ignorance no matter the culture. I'm not pretending that mission work has been done perfectly, but Christian missionaries did not develop the US policy to wipe out indigenous culture. Maybe you think that it would have been better for the native people to retain their spirit worship, sun dances, and all the rest of their cultural trappings, but I cannot agree.

One of the principles that this country was founded on was freedom of religion. Kidnapping whole generations of indigenous children and shipping them across the country to religiously run schools as part of a deliberate policy to eradicate indigenous cultures and religions flies in the face of everything this nation stands for.

People aren't objecting to ordinary mission work that treats people as equals. They are criticizing a deliberate government policy that amounted to intentional genocide, and the religious groups that chose to be direct participants in said policy. And no, this isn't simply a case of changing times and applying current standards to the past. People knew it was wrong then too. There is plenty of writing to that effect and plenty of people who protested against such policies at that time as well.

[Szdfan]

Yes, self-examination is absulutely necessary for our daily life, and it certainly is important to consider whether various aspects of our culture are truly better, or if they are just different.

What is the purpose of going to all nations and preaching the gospel if we have nothing better to offer the heathen that what they already have?

I don't disagree with that, but who decides that what is being offered is actually better? Was acculturating indigenous people to Western culture really offering them something better or was it confusing the Gospel of Jesus Christ with Western culture?

There of course have been many different types of "missionaries" over the years, but I think it's fair to say that it wasn't the work of Christian missionaries that traumatized native communities or that contributed to the wretchedness in communities today.

I disagree. While I think Christian missionaries in the past were probably sincere in their desire to reach indigenous people, they also carried with them their biases and prejudices. There's plenty of documentation that Christians were directly involved in US policy to wipe out indigenous culture and they saw that acculturation as part of the mission to spread the Gospel. One of the things I noticed in seminary is that there has been a lot of soul-searching in missiology and an attempt to make corrections to the past by emphasizing culturally literate forms of evangelism instead of trying to force everyone into the same box.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, even when presented by imperfect humans, is better than spriritual ignorance no matter the culture. I'm not pretending that mission work has been done perfectly, but Christian missionaries did not develop the US policy to wipe out indigenous culture. Maybe you think that it would have been better for the native people to retain their spirit worship, sun dances, and all the rest of their cultural trappings, but I cannot agree.

I’m not saying that Christians developed the policies (but those lines get blurry when one considers the argument that the US is a “Christian nation”). What I am saying is that Christians participated in those policies and that evangelism was used by the US and European colonial empires as a tool for imperialism.

(Sidebar: I live about 1.5 hours from the Sand Creek massacre site. On November 29, 1864 Colonel John Chivington led the the Third Colorado Calvary in a massacre of Arapaho and Cheyenne who had already surrendered to the US Army. Chivington was an ordained Methodist minister. How do you even begin to separate between the “real” and “fake” Christians in this history?)

Missionaries who were part of colonialism brought with them the assumptions and racism of the culture they were a part of — mainly that white European culture was superior to the culture of the people they were colonializing and that their role wasn’t just to bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but also acculturation. Christian missionaries and institutions participated in the trauma of indigenous people in the Americas and around the world.

Now I don’t believe this history means that Christians shouldn’t engage in missions today, but I do think that this history has to inform current approaches and methodologies. Send missionaries who are culturally literate in the culture they are working in. Whenever possible, partner with local indigenous churches and support their mission efforts. Be humble and try to learn as much as possible from the culture you’re serving in. Ask the question: what does church and a faith community look like in the culture you’re serving in?

I think an attitude that says “I’m here to save these people from their own culture by making them more like me” is a major red flag and has the possibility to cause more harm than good.

[temporal1]

.. I think an attitude that says “I’m here to save these people from their own culture by making them more like me” is a major red flag and has the possibility to cause more harm than good.

Outside current secular/carnal gov policies/missions, has this approach been at all common in Christian missionaries for .. 100+ years? At what point can criticisms of early missionaries be given a rest?