Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Grace]

On another note concerning Ukraine. Biden promises a mere pittance of $700.00 to every household in Maui who were victims of the wildfires. On the same day he announced the measly $700. to Maui residents, he asked congress for 40 billion, over half of it for Ukraine.

[AndersonD]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/worl ... =url-share

We should be prepared for similar to happen in the U.S. - especially as our alternative service programmes like MVS are in a state of disarray.

Currently Selective Service wants my denomination to open more units so that if there were a draft, we could take every other denomination’s C.O.s. These units are expensive to run and need a lot of volunteer help. I really wish other Anabaptists and other peace churches would show a stronger commitment to running voluntary service units.

Is your VS program similar to the one CAM manages? And do you obtain credits for voluntary service? What is the impetus behind the program? Is the government requiring it?

[Ken]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/worl ... =url-share

We should be prepared for similar to happen in the U.S. - especially as our alternative service programmes like MVS are in a state of disarray.

Currently Selective Service wants my denomination to open more units so that if there were a draft, we could take every other denomination’s C.O.s. These units are expensive to run and need a lot of volunteer help. I really wish other Anabaptists and other peace churches would show a stronger commitment to running voluntary service units.

Is your VS program similar to the one CAM manages? And do you obtain credits for voluntary service? What is the impetus behind the program? Is the government requiring it?

The current Selective Service office is a make-work patronage office where administrations tend to dump people so they don't do damage in any other more important government office.

In the event that the US ever again faced any kind of military emergency that required conscription, Congress would need to authorize it and re-write all the rules anyway. So anything the current Office of Selective Service tells you is completely useless. Millions of young men don't bother to even register today and the last time anyone was pursued and prosecuted for failing to register was 1986 or almost 40 years ago. Which tells you how toothless they are. Also in 2019 Federal courts found the all-male draft to be unconstitutional and Congress has neglected to replace the current program with anything else. So it is basically a vestigial agency with no actual purpose or authority.

I mean sure, churches should build up volunteer service programs for young people as that sort of thing has its own separate merits. But don't assume anything some official in the Selective Service office tells you carries the slightest weight in the unlikely event of some future conscription program. It would be impossible for them to have any idea what any hypothetical future military conscription program would even look like

[AndersonD]

We should be prepared for similar to happen in the U.S. - especially as our alternative service programmes like MVS are in a state of disarray.

Currently Selective Service wants my denomination to open more units so that if there were a draft, we could take every other denomination’s C.O.s. These units are expensive to run and need a lot of volunteer help. I really wish other Anabaptists and other peace churches would show a stronger commitment to running voluntary service units.

Is your VS program similar to the one CAM manages? And do you obtain credits for voluntary service? What is the impetus behind the program? Is the government requiring it?

The current Selective Service office is a make-work patronage office where administrations tend to dump people so they don't do damage in any other more important government office.

In the event that the US ever again faced any kind of military emergency that required conscription, Congress would need to authorize it and re-write all the rules anyway. So anything the current Office of Selective Service tells you is completely useless. Millions of young men don't bother to even register today and the last time anyone was pursued and prosecuted for failing to register was 1986 or almost 40 years ago. Which tells you how toothless they are. Also in 2019 Federal courts found the all-male draft to be unconstitutional and Congress has neglected to replace the current program with anything else. So it is basically a vestigial agency with no actual purpose or authority.

I mean sure, churches should build up volunteer service programs for young people as that sort of thing has its own separate merits. But don't assume anything some official in the Selective Service office tells you carries the slightest weight in the unlikely event of some future conscription program. It would be impossible for them to have any idea what any future program will look like

This is also my understanding of Selective Service. So I don't understand why the CoGiC is operating a VS unit. Is CAM's CASP program operating? Haven't heard anything about in the last few years.

When the Hutterites first immigrated they sought assurances from Grant that their young men wouldn't be conscripted. Grant assured them that he didn't see any need for conscription in the foreseeable future. A few decades later 4 Hutterite men were languishing in Alcatraz due to refusing to serve in WWI.

[Soloist]

Some people feel it’s better to do something rather than nothing.
The government is more likely to favor someone who is doing something then someone who is doing nothing

[AndersonD]

Some people feel it’s better to do something rather than nothing.
The government is more likely to favor someone who is doing something then someone who is doing nothing

Oh, really?

[Soloist]

Some people feel it’s better to do something rather than nothing.
The government is more likely to favor someone who is doing something then someone who is doing nothing

Oh, really?

No I made it all up.

It’s called a logical inference

[Ken]

Some people feel it’s better to do something rather than nothing.
The government is more likely to favor someone who is doing something then someone who is doing nothing

The country and world is vastly different from the 1940s when local community draft boards were given the authority to judge the authenticity of conscientious objector claims with enormous discretion.

Modern war is also completely different from those times and the human resource needs of the military are also completely different. For example, during WW2 just for the one single Battle of Okinawa the US Navy assembled a task force of over 1600 ships and 350,000 Navy personnel just to invade one island in one theater of the war. https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by- ... inawa.html By comparison, the current US Navy only has about 300 active ships (with lots more in mothballs) and less than 350,000 personnel worldwide. And it is by far the largest and most powerful navy on the planet.

But even assuming there was a future conscription, it is far more likely that applications would be automated through some sort of online system not dealt with by some sort of arbitrary local draft board. Like they are for say student loan deferments.

That said, I completely support churches developing voluntary service opportunities for young people, both men and women. But they should establish and design such programs for their own merit and Christian ideals. Not because some toothless vestigial agency makes some recommendation that they are in no position to make.

[AndersonD]

Some people feel it’s better to do something rather than nothing.
The government is more likely to favor someone who is doing something then someone who is doing nothing

Oh, really?

No I made it all up.

It’s called a logical inference

Personally, I wouldn't dare to hope that my service today precludes me from military service tomorrow especially after reading "Pacifists in Chains".

But as Ken describes, the military today is very different from the turn of the century making the draft highly unlikely.

[Soloist]

Personally, I wouldn't dare to hope that my service today precludes me from military service tomorrow especially after reading "Pacifists in Chains".

But as Ken describes, the military today is very different from the turn of the century making the draft highly unlikely.

Well, no one can make you serve. Hence the martyrs who have died for refusing Military service.
I already was in the military, they won’t take me although if things got bad enough, they would still try. Nurses are valuable