Evangelism, Empathy, and Christian Nationalism...

[Bootstrap]

I agree with Russell Moore, that was a time that many Christians decided they no longer cared about moral commitments they had held in the past. It changed the way many Christians talk about public morality. And it's changed the definition of what "the enemy" is for Christians.

Boot,

Evangelical Christianity (and mainline Protestantism, too) has always been deeply enmeshed in politics and trying to promote whatever was currently in fashion for being the good thing to promote.

But it often looks like the same change happened here on MN. Some people here also downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood. Some people here also seem enmeshed in political enemy narratives.

If we want to be an alternative, I think we have some work to do.

[Ken]

I agree with Russell Moore, that was a time that many Christians decided they no longer cared about moral commitments they had held in the past. It changed the way many Christians talk about public morality. And it's changed the definition of what "the enemy" is for Christians.

Boot,

Evangelical Christianity (and mainline Protestantism, too) has always been deeply enmeshed in politics and trying to promote whatever was currently in fashion for being the good thing to promote.

But it often looks like the same change happened here on MN. Some people here also downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood. Some people here also seem enmeshed in political enemy narratives.

If we want to be an alternative, I think we have some work to do.

One can argue that PEOPLE should not be political.
And one can argue that CHURCHES should not be political.

The are two separate arguments. One does not necessarily lead to the other and vice versa.

I think BOTH politics and religion were healthier in this country when the two did not mix so much. And I mean that across the board from liberal to conservative.

[Josh]

I agree with Russell Moore, that was a time that many Christians decided they no longer cared about moral commitments they had held in the past. It changed the way many Christians talk about public morality. And it's changed the definition of what "the enemy" is for Christians.

Boot,

Evangelical Christianity (and mainline Protestantism, too) has always been deeply enmeshed in politics and trying to promote whatever was currently in fashion for being the good thing to promote.

But it often looks like the same change happened here on MN. Some people here also downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood. Some people here also seem enmeshed in political enemy narratives.

If we want to be an alternative, I think we have some work to do.

If you have specific people in mind, please address them directly.

temporal1 and Valerie will directly talk about politics and take political sides. They have also never claimed to be Mennonites nor Anabaptists and my perception is both of them have a standard conservative evangelical Christian woman sort of viewpoint.

What exactly are you asking for? The most vociferous people bleating about politics are liberal Mennonites or ex-Mennonites. Perhaps what you are craving, Boot, is the conservative Mennonite position on politics.

[Neto]

Interesting article. Here is how Moore defines Christian Nationalism. Which I think is a useful definition:

Christian nationalism is the use of Christian symbols or teachings in order to prop up a nation-state or an ethnic identity. It’s dangerous for the nation because it’s fundamentally anti-democratic. Christian nationalism takes a political claim and seeks to make it ultimate. It says: If a person disagrees with me, that person is disagreeing with God. No democratic nation can survive that, which is why the founders of this country built in all kinds of protections from it.

Christian nationalism is also dangerous for the witness of the church, because Christian nationalism is fundamentally, at its core, anti-evangelical. If what the Gospel means is for people to come before God, person by person, not nation by nation or village by village or tribe by tribe, then Christian nationalism is heretical.

Christian nationalism assumes outward conformity enforced by social or political power. It transforms the way that we see reality with the assumption that the really important things are political and cultural, as opposed to personal and spiritual and theological.

I suppose this is a somewhat different subject, but I do personally see "Christian Nationalism" primarily as a cultural expression. So one might also say (using part of the quotation above as a spring-board) that

Christian [Ethno-centralism] is the use of Christian symbols or teachings in order to prop up ... [or "spiritually validate"] an ethnic identity. It’s dangerous for the [Church, the Christian identity] because it’s fundamentally anti-[Church]. Christian [Ethno-centralism] takes [an extra-Biblical] claim and seeks to make it ultimate. It says: If a person disagrees with me, that person is disagreeing with God.

Please realize that I am not "anti-culture". Every culture is valid, but it is also true that every culture is fallen, in need of transformation through change brought to the individuals who make up that culture. Every culture has a core belief, a central focus. If that "center" is not Christ, it is anti-Christ.
To paraphrase Jesus, "Every culture that is not for me is against me", and, "You cannot serve both God and culture".

[To quote Bob Dylan (from the record album 'Slow Train Coming'): "You gotta' serve somebody. It may be the Devil, or it may be the Lord, but you still gotta' serve somebody."]

[Bootstrap]

Perhaps what you are craving, Boot, is the conservative Mennonite position on politics.

So conservative Mennonites on MN have never downplayed the significance of the Access Hollywood tapes or engaged in political enemy narratives and political victim narratives?

That wasn't my impression.

Some conservative Mennonites don't do these things. Ernie and Dan Z, for instance. But some do, I think. Some do it regularly, perhaps daily.

The most vociferous people bleating about politics are liberal Mennonites or ex-Mennonites.

I disagree.

Suppose that were true - wouldn't we see a bunch of threads about Trump's current legal challenges, and not just threads attacking the Bidens? Wouldn't we see a bunch of threads complaining that liberals are victims and the conservatives are out to get them and the whole system is unfair to liberals? That's not what I see here.

And I think the combination of strong political passion and denial is a really important part of the dynamic.

[Szdfan]

So conservative Mennonites on MN have never downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood or engaged in political enemy narratives and political victim narratives?

Do you mean Access Hollywood? Planet Hollywood is a movie-themed chain restaurant. I was confused at first about what you meant.

[Bootstrap]

So conservative Mennonites on MN have never downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood or engaged in political enemy narratives and political victim narratives?

Do you mean Access Hollywood? Planet Hollywood is a movie-themed chain restaurant. I was confused at first about what you meant.

Yeah, sorry. I can't say either is part of my normal thought life ;->

[Szdfan]

So conservative Mennonites on MN have never downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood or engaged in political enemy narratives and political victim narratives?

Do you mean Access Hollywood? Planet Hollywood is a movie-themed chain restaurant. I was confused at first about what you meant.

Yeah, sorry. I can't say either is part of my normal thought life ;->

I was pondering the significance of eating chain restaurant cheeseburgers among movie memorabilia.

[Sudsy]

I agree with Russell Moore, that was a time that many Christians decided they no longer cared about moral commitments they had held in the past. It changed the way many Christians talk about public morality. And it's changed the definition of what "the enemy" is for Christians.

Boot,

Evangelical Christianity (and mainline Protestantism, too) has always been deeply enmeshed in politics and trying to promote whatever was currently in fashion for being the good thing to promote.

Talk about 'broad brushing' a group of believers. Not in my experience as an evangelical. Most evangelical Christians that I have run acrossed have had little to no interest in politics. It was just of no interest in those I hung out with as we regarded ourselves in that area as not of this world.

So I disagree with the 'always' comment but I do believe many evangelicals have been sucked into promoting things other than the Gospel and/or a focus on a watered down gospel with not much born again experience, which is really no Gospel at all, imo.

[Sudsy]

Boot,

Evangelical Christianity (and mainline Protestantism, too) has always been deeply enmeshed in politics and trying to promote whatever was currently in fashion for being the good thing to promote.

But it often looks like the same change happened here on MN. Some people here also downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood. Some people here also seem enmeshed in political enemy narratives.

If we want to be an alternative, I think we have some work to do.

One can argue that PEOPLE should not be political.
And one can argue that CHURCHES should not be political.

The are two separate arguments. One does not necessarily lead to the other and vice versa.

I think BOTH politics and religion were healthier in this country when the two did not mix so much. And I mean that across the board from liberal to conservative.

Imo, Christianity focus goes downhill when people and churches get into politics. We have then lost an eternal perspective and have become worldy minded and too focused on the present things that have no eternal benefits. But with it in our face with all the media we now have, it is one of the biggest challenges to 'come out from among them' when we think we must keep informed. A big tool of deceit satan is using. One does not need to keep informed about all the current things happening in this world to be a witness but this is something Christianity has bought into and is an easy sidetrack to our mission here. I know because it has sidetracked me.