Does the "Charity Church" really exist anymore?

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Very interesting. What is the background of most of the people there?

Pretty varied, actually. At Lawrence Christian Fellowship, there were a few big families. One was agnostic, converted to Christ from a baptist church, got convicted of a few doctrines and moved to an ultra conservative mennonite church, went with a loosely Charity-affiliated church that came out of a split in their ultra conservative church, and now is in this Christian Fellowship church.
Another family grew up Amish but left maybe a few years after joining as adults.
Other families came from backgrounds in conservative mennonite circles.

At Danby Christian, there are several families who came from Harmony Christian Fellowship to assist. Some of them had been missionaries in Africa before this. One woman grew up with a Jewish father and a Catholic mother who converted to plain church and ended up at Harmony in PA.
One woman had grown up Catholic, she and her husband attended a progressive mennonite church (which had split off from MCUSA over LGBT issues) before coming here.
A couple families had been a part of Apostolic Christian Faith.
One woman has had an interesting journey including agnostisicm and later 3ish years with the Bruderhof.
Many families appear as moderate conservative mennonites, but I havent had time to meet everyone yet. Ever-so-slightly larger veil coverings than I'm used to in BMA churches. Lots of samey clothing but it includes floral print dresses, not just plain colors. Lots of the young men wear suspenders.

[Josh]

Interesting. Back when I was around Charity people (5-9 years ago span), I was often the only seeker in the room, or perhaps there was 1 other.

Interestingly I never was really “accepted” in Charity circles - until I’d been with the Holdemans a while. Then, one preacher went out of his way to know I’d be welcome in his church and they’d make sure to find a place for me there. I believe this is due to that they feel most comfortable with people who are “more conservative” but were flummoxed how to deal with someone whose life path is not “becoming less conservative”.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

I'm willing to bet our differing experiences have a lot to do with geography (although my church is actually mostly the DNA of Harmony Christian Fellowship in PA).

Also, for what it's worth, our church has had some cooperation with an ultra conservative Mennonite church in the nearby region. There doesn't seem to be much separation or animosity between them.

[Marylander]

You are one to speak… tshirts indeed.

A rather key difference is that Holdemans were not busy publishing newsletters rebuking everyone else for wearing T-shirts (as far as I know, T-shirts have been worn for a long time, although the cultural norm is that they aren't supposed to have any writing on them other than for an employer/business).

Our church has not accepted listening to the radio, CCM, recorded music, etc. although there are certainly those within our ranks who are pushing in that direction. One of the differences is which voices are prevailing. In every Charity setting I have been around, the voices that wanted to move in a worldly direction prevailed.

Is your congregation an outlier? I have Haldeman friends in the West and they wear T's emblazoned with sports' teams, have photos of themselves on social media, radios, and they are very patriotic. And there's quite a shift between the millennials and baby boomers and I will find out about gun ownership cuz I am pretty sure one of my friends has a concealed carry permit. They are members in good standing. I know very little about the Charity movement but do know the Haldemans have siphoned members from traditional Menno groups in Ohio and PA.

[Josh]

Is your congregation an outlier? I have Haldeman friends in the West and they wear T's emblazoned with sports' teams, have photos of themselves on social media, radios, and they are very patriotic. And there's quite a shift between the millennials and baby boomers and I will find out about gun ownership cuz I am pretty sure one of my friends has a concealed carry permit. They are members in good standing. I know very little about the Charity movement but do know the Haldemans have siphoned members from traditional Menno groups in Ohio and PA.

The conduct you describe is not at all the norm (my wife is from CA), although there have been waves of people who decided to leave the church (which often takes years) and indulge in many of the things above as they go through this “process”, and yes, social media is one way to track their “progress”.

As far as Ohio, I’m not aware of anyone in my congregation or the one I used to be in coming from a “traditional” Menno group other than 1 person from Mid-West type of setting. In PA there is a cluster of people who came from the Wengers quite some time ago (30-40 years?). People from various sorts of Amish backgrounds are more common.

In the present era there aren’t very many people who migrate from other plain groups to our church.

[Marylander]

Oh so my friends' congregations are outliers. How much interaction do you have with other Haldeman congregations? For instance, are your meeting houses closed some Sundays so you can attend another meeting? And do your preachers preach in fellow congregations?

[Josh]

Oh so my friends' congregations are outliers. How much interaction do you have with other Haldeman congregations?

I'm not sure, where are they? When you say "West" I am guessing you are talking about California or Arizona. I'm familiar with the northern side of California but not so much the southern side. As far as Arizona goes, the churches there are pretty small and there was a rather large wave of people who left a few years ago.

I've probably personally visited 20-25 congregations and spent extended time at 15 or so (staying in people's houses, going to youth group functions, and so on). My wife and my business partner have probably been to way beyond that, basically been to most of the congregations, and yes they keep up to date on the latest happenings.

For instance, are your meeting houses closed some Sundays so you can attend another meeting?

Huh? You can do whatever you want on a Sunday. A few weekends ago, we decided to attend Sunday services at a congregation an hour away.

And do your preachers preach in fellow congregations?

Yes, they all go and preach revivals a time or two a year.

[Marylander]

ID, WY and CO.

Are your meeting houses open every Sunday?

[Josh]

ID, WY and CO.

Are your meeting houses open every Sunday?

I'm not very familiar with ID or WY but I'm pretty familiar with Colorado... the description you gave doesn't fit the community near Denver at all. I'm less familiar with Centre but from what I've heard it wouldn't fit there either.

As a general rule Holdemans hold church services every Sunday starting at 9:45 or 10:00 AM. You can listen in to any of them here:
https://listentochurch.com/

[NedFlanders]

This is reminding me of a message from Charity in 2008 i think it was- may sound familiar:

"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisees stood and prayed this with himself, 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men - extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week I give tithes of all that I possess. And the tax collector standing a far off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" I tell you this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted".Luke 18:9-14.

The message was given from a visiting padtor from South America noticing how Lancaster PA Christians were comparing themselves in such a way as the Pharisee- it was an admonishment & warning.

He repeated 3x: "be careful of spiritual pride, it is an infection"

It does creep up on us doesn't it?

It seemed shortly after this admonishment is when Charity began some changes

There are brothers and sisters going apostate and so there is concern and compassion. And you view such as comparing?

Is it not okay to desire to understand drift to aid in being a blessing and building up? Why tear down like this Valerie?