Salvation.

[danfreed]

The Gospel of Salvation is all about Jesus.

Some evangelicals tend to accept and emphasis the free gift of salvation and de-emphasize the good works that follow.
Some anabaptists tend to emphasis good works and de-emphasize the free gift of salvation.

Salvation IS a free gift and resulting good works WILL follow.
Christians should accept and emphasis both, instead of downplaying one or the other aspect, in my opinion.

Jesus is the foundation, substance, energy, and everything that we need related to salvation - He can get us from death to life, from earth to heaven, from darkness to light, from sin to righteousness, from Satan to God, from dead works to a faith that works by love.


This fits both Ephesians 2, and the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7).

Here is Ephesians 2:1-10
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air [Satan], the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Verses 8-9 focuses on the free gift
Verse 10 focuses on the good works
Both the Free Gift and Good Works are part and parcel of God's great plan of salvation, as I understand it.

[NedFlanders]

And then there is another group that believes most of what you said except they go deeper in that they recognize that Christ never talked about a "Gospel of Salvation" and rather that we only ever find in scripture Christ calling the Gospel - the Gospel of the kingdom of God! And that being born again is actually about entrance into the kingdom of God. It includes the start the continued work of salvation but a focus on the salvation conflicts with Christ telling us that if we seek to save our live we will lose it - rather we need to lose our life His sake and the Gospel's (and the verses surrounding that text are referenced to the Kingdom of God).

[danfreed]

Hi NedF,

Thanks for your input, and welcome to the forum!

I'm trying to understand your thoughts on the difference between gospel of salvation and gospel of the kingdom.

I would understand those terms to be basically referring to the same wonderful plan of salvation that Jesus offers - whereby we can move from the kingdom of sin/Satan, into the kingdom of righteousness/God.

I love the story of that you referenced from John 3 where Jesus is teaching Nicodemus how to enter the kingdom of God through a spiritual new birth.
In verse 14-15 Jesus tells him "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
Here Jesus is linking eternal life (in the kingdom of God), to belief in Him, the suffering Savior, who would be lifted up on the cross of Calvary.

His name (Jesus) means Savior.
Matthew 1:20-21 "...an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
NIV footnote - Matthew 1:21 Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.

Jesus mission of salvation is mentioned in many other places in the new testament.
The story of Jesus and Zacchaeus in Luke 19 is notable.
Luke 19:9-10 Jesus said to Zaccheus,“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost'

[Sudsy]

When the word Gospel is used with regard to Salvation or to the Kingdom, something that seems often missing, is that 'Gospel' means 'good news' and it should be natural for us believers to share 'good news' with others who need to here it.

With regard to this topic, coming from an evangelical background, I was taught something like this -

God calls every Christian to proclaim the truth of the gospel. We operate under orders from the highest authority ever. The proclaimer gets his marching orders from the ultimate source possible. This is true of all believers, whether they are in full-time ministry or not. There is no such thing as home or foreign missions; the idea is simply missions. Everyone has the mission to proclaim the gospel. It is true that God calls some to go to far-flung fields, but even that is simply missions.

However, this text appears to some as requiring a special 'calling' to share the Gospel - Romans 10:13 -15 follows with this statement and questions -

for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

So, how do Anabaptists in your group explain these verses ? Is it being preached that sharing the Gospel to see people saved requires using words to bring salvation to the unsaved and that all Christians are called to this mission ? Or is sharing the Gospel in words only for certain 'called' Christians and not all Christians ?

And another question - Do you think this forum majors on good news or bad news ? It would seem to me topics of 'bad news' about the effects of sin advancing in this world, with little to no hope, is most popular. Thoughts on this also ?

[Josh]

MennoNet is not an evangelistic tool, and more importantly, there is about zero agreement here when it comes to doctrines on either major or minor issues.

[NedFlanders]

I realize this topic is about salvation, so I don’t intend to derail it. But as soon as “gospel of salvation” is said it brings alarms bells.

Typically the Protestant world(anyone who is not of a Catholic perspective or an historical Anabaptist/Mennonite perspective ) uses the term salvation when speaking of the gospel(or yes, the good news). And well Christ spoke of salvation He only ever called the Gospel - the Gospel of the kingdom of God - at least as is recorded in Scripture. In the Protestant view the shift in focus on salvation easily lends to looking for requirements of salvation and much too often the extreme becomes a self focus. These people will ask what is the minimum to be saved, or if something is a salvation issue.

On the other hand a person who focuses on Christ will see Christ’ emphasis on the kingdom of God as a common theme above salvation . They will recognize that salvation is all a part of the Gospel but since it is not the focus of the Gospel these people more often tend to look at the Scriptures for what they get to do in following Christ. Salvation and self become less of a concern and move forward in loving obedience to Christs call.

[Valerie]

Everytime i see an "us vs them" focus i feel like the Lord must be grieved to see His Church so sected & critical of each other-

2 Corinthians 10:12, 13
"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

Christ prayed to His Father in John 17 that His Church would be One. That seems so much more important than you look at it this way we look at it this way type of mindset- as soon as "that" becomes the focus we really hurt the witness of the Church. .

One thing, the Ancient Churches put Anabaptist in the "Protestant" category, they are considered Protestant - anyone that opposed the Catholics during the Reformation era and any new denomination since would be considered Protestant. Certainly Eastern Orthodox consider Anabaptist Protestant- so from the standpoint of the ancient churches were kind of all lumped together

[NedFlanders]

This is about Christ and His kingdom not a denominational preference.

[Soloist]

Everytime i see an "us vs them" focus i feel like the Lord must be grieved to see His Church so sected & critical of each other-

One thing, the Ancient Churches put Anabaptist in the "Protestant" category, they are considered Protestant - anyone that opposed the Catholics during the Reformation era and any new denomination since would be considered Protestant. Certainly Eastern Orthodox consider Anabaptist Protestant- so from the standpoint of the ancient churches were kind of all lumped together

Do you also consider this an “us vs them”?

[Valerie]

Everytime i see an "us vs them" focus i feel like the Lord must be grieved to see His Church so sected & critical of each other-

One thing, the Ancient Churches put Anabaptist in the "Protestant" category, they are considered Protestant - anyone that opposed the Catholics during the Reformation era and any new denomination since would be considered Protestant. Certainly Eastern Orthodox consider Anabaptist Protestant- so from the standpoint of the ancient churches were kind of all lumped together

Do you also consider this an “us vs them”?

In a way yes. But, as I read in the Mennonite in Europe book that I bought years ago about the history of the Mennonite and anabaptist, one thing it pointed out is there was no Reformation in the east. You have to consider them by the time of the Reformation the church was 1,500 plus years old. And then from the East watching what happened during the Reformation in the West it would be hard for them not to feel US versus them because the church literally blew into thousands of sects from that point on and they watch as we wrangle all our differences out