I think I have told you this before recently, our church is not a reformed Baptist Church our Pastor would be very surprised that you seem to know this and he doesn't.
I understand why he arrives at adult baptism as most Protestants do.
I think I have told you this before recently, our church is not a reformed Baptist Church our Pastor would be very surprised that you seem to know this and he doesn't.
Of course one could argue that the burden of proof is on those who don’t believe. I’m not convinced and I don’t see that I can prove it to you with way. I do not believe a child can repent and the first command was repent followed by baptism. If the infant baptized follows Jesus faithfully believing they were baptized, who am I to judge them? I believe them to be wrong but other things always go along with false teachings. Most Catholics and Orthodox people I know do not have lives dedicated to following Jesus and their bath as a baby profited them nothing.Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:22 am Those were quotes the EO woman posted- I will ask her where she got the one you're asking about.
In Davids book, the earliest statement he provided was by Irenaues (c.180, E/W), 1.391:
He came to save all persons by means of himself - all, I say who threw him are born again to God - infants, children, boys, you, and old men."
It was suggested to me that the burden of proof is on those who dispute infant baptism. Peter said the promise was to you and your children, and then several places in Acts entire households were baptized at once. I don't know of any denomination where that happens but it happened then. I was told it was ridiculous to believe that those households wouldn't have included perhaps infants and definitely children- what does a household usually consist of?
The vast majority of these people came after several generations removed from the Apostles. If it was important to practice, God would not have hidden it away like the gnostic writings. He has made the doctrine of salvation plain and perhaps infant baptism is disputable but I don’t see it as commanded.With all of the statements by so many writers believing in infant baptism and children being baptized can you find any church writers from the first century that was against infant baptism? Of course you only would baptize your infants and children if you were believers yourself.
Well that is the core of the problem. Both sides claim Apostolic authority and have come out in different places. So again, one can ask, where is the proof?At least we know that this wasn't some made-up thing by the Pope later- Rome was not making decisions on their own until much later which is what led to the Great Schism of 1,054 ad. Until then decisions of the church was made by the five major patriarchs- the practice of church council's to make decisions for the church based on Acts 15.
I don’t agree that sprinkling or pouring is the best way but I also don’t see it practically to immerse babies. Especially those with medical compromises.If One believes their mode of baptism by sprinkling was scriptural and yet we find by the early church writers and the Didache that the mode of baptizing was going down into the water and then coming up, if one can accept that the belief of sprinkling was not scriptural then can one accept that being against infant baptism maybe an error as well?
Okay. Then what denomination and/or doctrine is it?
It is non-denomination, which doctrine? Sola Scriptura, by Jesus and the ApostlesJosh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:33 amOkay. Then what denomination and/or doctrine is it?
Lots of people claim to be nondenominational.
I realize. I went to a Baptist Church when I was younger and I visited with friends that were baptist. It doesn't remind me of being in the Baptist church. Or a Pentecostal church. Or a reformed Church. Definitely not in a night church although I do see people that used to be mennonite. And now we have several Amish families attending. Looks like 4 generations.
Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:17 amThese quotes are too late to argue the basis of apostolic tradition.Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:30 am JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members” (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]).