What are your thoughts re Hegelian Dialectic & CRT in the Church?

[Ken]

No, but that's not what we are talking about.

It is exactly what they were talking about. The current structure of the schools in Mississippi is hugely influenced by this legacy of white supremacy. The effects are pervasive and ongoing.

No, that’s the opinion of radical ideologues pushing CRT.

It is objective fact that the legacy of white supremacy still pervades education in Mississippi to this day in a myriad of ways. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of history.

[Josh]

It is objective fact that the legacy of white supremacy still pervades education in Mississippi to this day in a myriad of ways. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of history.

No, it is not objective fact that your bogeyman of "white supremacy" has anything to do with education in Mississippi or other places in the present era. And it is certainly not objective fact that Critical Race Theory is the right way to do anything to help uplift education for all children regardless of race.

[Ken]

It is objective fact that the legacy of white supremacy still pervades education in Mississippi to this day in a myriad of ways. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of history.

No, it is not objective fact that your bogeyman of "white supremacy" has anything to do with education in Mississippi or other places in the present era. And it is certainly not objective fact that Critical Race Theory is the right way to do anything to help uplift education for all children regardless of race.

Let's take a look at some history that you are apparently ignorant of.

Slavery: Mississippi was first settled by white planters in the early 1700s and slave plantations came quickly to the Mississippi Delta so there was roughly 150 years of slavery. As part of the deep south, Mississippi was subject to the the most vicious large-scale industrial slavery compared to more northern states like Kentucky. The entire economy was based on slavery and the settlement patterns towns, and basically everything in the built environment is a legacy of slavery. Everything about antebellum Mississippi was premised on white supremacy.

Jim Crow: As part of the deep south, Mississippi was run by a vicious white supremacist government for roughly 100 years after the end of slavery. It was not a democracy, but an authoritarian white-supremacist government that enforced racial segregation in every aspect of life from education to housing to employment to criminal justice.

Civil Rights Era: Brown v. Board of Education was decided in 1954 but desegregation came slowly to Mississippi. The whites-only university system did not even start desegregating until 1962. That caused widespread race riots by violent white mobs who rampaged the city and the violence was so out of control that the Federal government had to airlift in troops from both the 101st and 82 airborne divisions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962 The universities remained largely segregated through the 1960s and the college football teams were not desegrated until into the 1970s.

Education during the Civil Rights era: Mississippi began to dismantle its system of segregated schools in the 1960s. At that time the population was roughly 60% white and 40% black and due to segregation there was large black middle class so maybe 40% of teachers, coaches, school principals, etc. where black. When Mississippi started desegregation of the public schools they did entirely by dismantling black schools and bringing black students into formerly whites-only schools. There were no instances of desegregation happening by sending white students to formerly black schools. Which gives obvious lie to the notion of "separate but equal". Now in theory, black public school teachers, counselors, coaches, administrators, etc. were supposed to be absorbed into the white schools just like the black students. In practice that did not happen due to overt racism (white supremacy if you will). Principals of white schools found lots of convenient reasons to reject black applicants for teaching jobs largely for reasons of qualifications. They didn't attend the right universities or have the right degrees because those were all closed to them. The belief at the time was that it was unacceptable to have black teachers teaching white students in an integrated school. And there were certainly no black administrators hired to be principals of formerly white schools. The result was that during the 1960s and 1970s the black middle class of teachers and administrators was absolutely gutted in Mississippi. Many were forced to leave the state to find work in the north, or were forced to take more menial and less professional jobs.

Now education like many other professions such as farming tends to run in families. If your father or mother is a teacher, you are more likely to follow in their footsteps. So this racist implementation of school desegregation essentially erased an entire generation of middle class black teachers and administrators in Mississippi. Which meant that through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, teaching was largely a white middle class profession in Mississippi. There were, of course, some black teachers. But this legacy of racism still ripples through the school system to this day in Mississippi and other southern states where black teachers are still nowhere near their percentage of the public school population. You can look at the demographic makeup of the Mississippi teachers over time here: https://mississippitoday.org/2019/09/06 ... ographics/ Today about 25% of Mississippi teachers are black while about 57% of public school students are black. And the percentage of black administrators running public schools is far lower. That is a direct legacy of white supremacy and the racist implementation of desegregation since many teachers and administrators still working today got their start during that era. And old habits die hard, especially in the south where as Mississippi's own William Falkner famously said: "“The past is never dead. It's not even past.”

Segregation Academies: The second thing that happened in Mississippi during the era of school desegregation was the establishment of private segregationist academies. Racist affluent and middle class whites pulled their children out of desegrated schools in droves during the 1960s and enrolled them in segregationist "whites only" academies across the state. This happened throughout the south. This had the effect of making the public schools less white, but also resulted in the reduction of support for funding public schools. Majority white property owners lost interest in funding what were majority black schools through their property taxes when their own children were attending segregated private schools. And so financial support for education declined. Many school boards remained all-white despite the fact that they oversaw public schools that were increasingly black.

There are reasons why Mississippi spends less than half the amount of say Massachusetts on a per-student basis and racism is one of them. Another reason is that Mississippi is highly gerrymandered along racial lines which means that the state government is far more white, male, and conservative than the population at large. https://mississippitoday.org/2019/02/06 ... -like-you/ and these are the people who make funding decisions about Mississippi public schools. What is the most recent thing they have done? They have decided to further erode public funding for public schools by passing various voucher programs that largely subsidize wealthy white parents who are already sending their students to private schools. People who have studied Mississippi's school voucher program have found that it has basically transferred millions of public dollars to private schools to subsidize largely wealthier and white students who were already attending such schools in the first place.

Present day: So that is essentially where we are today. Virtually everything about the Mississippi public schools is a legacy of white supremacy. The distribution of public schools throughout neighborhoods, the school boundary lines and school district boundary lines, the racial composition of the teaching profession, the racial composition of the administrators, school boards, and legislators who are governing schools and making policy decisions about them, the neighborhoods in which children are raised, the economic disparities between white and black parents, the criminal justice system which interacts with the schools and students, and so forth. All of it has its roots in Mississippi's 250 year history of overt white supremacy.

Feel free to dispute any of this. But since you apparently believe that racism no longer affects Mississippi public schools you really need to dispute ALL of it.

[Josh]

None of what you said is relevant to whether or not Critical Theory needs to be pushed on teachers and taught to elementary students.

Elementary students don't need to be learning about race, "white supremacy" (whatever that is), and racial identities and grievances at all. How about teaching elementary students:

- Reading
- Writing
- Arithmetic

[Ken]

None of what you said is relevant to whether or not Critical Theory needs to be pushed on teachers and taught to elementary students.

Elementary students don't need to be learning about race, "white supremacy" (whatever that is), and racial identities and grievances at all. How about teaching elementary students:

- Reading
- Writing
- Arithmetic

Or maybe you should stop buying into the latest made-up fake moral panic nonsense coming from the right wing and just let teachers and schools decide for themselves how best to reach all of their students. How about taking a step back from all the censorship and denial? It is not a good look in 21st Century America.

All this nonsense and hysteria about CRT was invented out of thin air by Christopher Rufo as nothing more than a culture war wedge issue. And you fell for it hook-line-and-sinker. It is all completely made up. Don't believe me? He says so himself: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-o ... ace-theory

And yes, students should learn about the world they actually live in. Kids aren't naturally prejudiced. They have to learn it from their parents. But many of them do.

What's next. You going to try to convince us that religious persecution doesn't exist? Martyr's Mirror? Fake history written by religious zealots trying to indoctrinate their readers? That is how you sound on the subject of race.

[Josh]

"Race".

I believe people are humans and are individuals. I believe that various aspect of people's appearance is unimportant, and that what really matters is their character and how they behave.

I don't believe it's good at all to carve people up into "identity groups" based on their appearance and then teach one half of them that every problem they might face is because people who look a different way are out to get them.

And no, I don't think elementary school students need to be taught about "race". Nor should Critical Race Theory be present at all in the training of teachers. You assured us earlier that CRT had nothing to do with K-12 education, and I proved you wrong. It has been infiltrating K-12 education quite a while.

[Ken]

"Race".

I believe people are humans and are individuals. I believe that various aspect of people's appearance is unimportant, and that what really matters is their character and how they behave.

I don't believe it's good at all to carve people up into "identity groups" based on their appearance and then teach one half of them that every problem they might face is because people who look a different way are out to get them.

And no, I don't think elementary school students need to be taught about "race". Nor should Critical Race Theory be present at all in the training of teachers. You assured us earlier that CRT had nothing to do with K-12 education, and I proved you wrong. It has been infiltrating K-12 education quite a while.

That's quite rich coming from the same person who last week posted a single anecdote about school violence in Florida and labeled it "racialized violence" despite zero evidence that was the case, and then used that one single incident to make assumptions about schools across the nation.

Which is it? Is race irrelevant as you say here? Or is it important as you claimed on your school violence thread? Shall we rewind the tape? Here are some of the things that you wrote on that thread. It actually seems that when black kids are involved you are actually obsessed with race:

I am also especially disturbed when there is racialised violence. Were these children targeted for violence because of their race? Should children of that race expect to be able to go to school without violence or should they accept being beaten just because of the colour of their skin?

And, Ken, yes, this is racialised violence.

In the video, the assailants are all of the same race. The victims are also all of the same race. Ken, there is obviously a racial component to this.

My original question is exactly how parents should cope with this. It’s a serious problem if white or whites Hispanic (such as this case) pupils can’t go to school with people of another race

For this particular family, I think having private Christian schools available would be a very good thing, and operating them in such a way that there is not racialised violence and hate crimes happening on the school bus to and from school.

So apparently you believe that race is never an issue in schools and schools should be forbidden from even talking about about race. Except or unless black kids are involved and then it is ALWAYS about race. Hmmm.....

You took a news article that did not mention race and made it all about race. Your own words betray you. The cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming.

[GaryK]

Results of a representative survey of more than 1,500 Americans aged 18 to 20 suggest that Critical
Race Theory (CRT) and radical gender ideology, together known as Critical Social Justice (CSJ),
is widespread in American schools. Ninety-three percent of American 18- to 20-year-olds said
that they had heard about at least one of eight CSJ concepts from a teacher or other adult at
school, including “white privilege,” “systemic racism,” “patriarchy,” or the idea that gender is a
choice unrelated to biological sex. Additionally, 90% of respondents had heard about at least
one CRT concept and 74% about at least one radical gender concept.
CSJ appears to have a significant impact in shifting children to the political left.

https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/ ... cation.pdf

[Neto]

I haven't commented here (as far as I can recall), because it strikes me as a political discussion, even though the thread title specifically says "in the Church", and it was created in the "General Theology" sub-forum. So here goes.

As Josh has stated, there is only one human race. As Ken has stated, children are not naturally "racist". (I prefer the term "ethnically prejudice", because there is only ONE RACE, so being racist is technically impossible.)

My suggestion for the question of ethnic prejudice IN THE CHURCH is to teach children that God created all of humanity - that we are all the same in His sight. So if we are going to have HIS attitude, we will also see each person in the same way as God does. As to what is done in the public schools, that is a political matter, but I do believe that children growing up in Christian homes do have an impact on social relationships in the wider society. Not fast enough (change)? Stopping the 'blame game' would be a great starting point. Then there is also an application to this in the "religious world" as well - stop stereo typing people from other Christian churches. (I haven't mentioned it recently, but I had a personal fault along these lines when I first met a guy who became a good friend on mine, BUT he was LUTHERAN! I had to recognize that I had prejudice toward him because of things that happened 500 years ago.)

Oh, and prejudice doesn't always come from the parents. In my childhood (before I was 9, at least) my dad bought a used car (+/- 20 years old), made some repairs on it, then resold it - to a preacher, an African-American. He never paid for it. My dad just let it go. That taught me a great deal more than a bunch of words in a school room, or even what he might have said to us as children.

[temporal1]

Just noticed this. 48 pages!
“School Choice Is Not Enough: The Impact of Critical Social Justice Ideology in American Education”

Results of a representative survey of more than 1,500 Americans aged 18 to 20 suggest that Critical
Race Theory (CRT) and radical gender ideology, together known as Critical Social Justice (CSJ),
is widespread in American schools. Ninety-three percent of American 18- to 20-year-olds said
that they had heard about at least one of eight CSJ concepts from a teacher or other adult at
school, including “white privilege,” “systemic racism,” “patriarchy,” or the idea that gender is a
choice unrelated to biological sex. Additionally, 90% of respondents had heard about at least
one CRT concept and 74% about at least one radical gender concept.
CSJ appears to have a significant impact in shifting children to the political left.

https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/ ... cation.pdf

- - - - - - -

“Why Socialists Want to Destroy Western Civilization and Christianity” | Prof. DiLorenzo / -13min (Excerpt)

Description:
What is the Aim of Political Correctness? Why do socialists want to destroy Western civilization and Christianity? What does multiculturalism really represent?

Prof. Thomas DiLorenzo starts with a quote from the book “Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis” by Ludwig von Mises, first published in German by Gustav Fischer Verlag in Jena in 1922.

Thomas James DiLorenzo is an American economics professor at Loyola University Maryland Sellinger School of Business.