AHA: mRNA vaccine induced myocarditis

[Soloist]

I’m curious how people know that these 1,100 athletes have been vaccinated or not. Or are we just assuming that they all have been vaccinated?

The teams keep medical records. Interventions of any nature are tracked and sports medicine researchers collect the data. That data is useful for a variety of reasons including lawsuits. Healthy athletes with exceptional skill sets are a valuable asset to be protected. Tracking their health is a part of that system.

There’s no political reason to conceal it that makes sense. They already identified the increased risk for children, and children are much more political hotspot than athletes.

Soloist, kindly see my note above regarding this as a “no politics” thread.

Please provide an academic link to this data so that this isn’t a political argument. Otherwise this is political and you are seeking to control the conversation over the data. See my point above.

[MaxPC]

I’m curious how people know that these 1,100 athletes have been vaccinated or not. Or are we just assuming that they all have been vaccinated?

The teams keep medical records. Interventions of any nature are tracked and sports medicine researchers collect the data. That data is useful for a variety of reasons including lawsuits. Healthy athletes with exceptional skill sets are a valuable asset to be protected. Tracking their health is a part of that system.

There’s no political reason to conceal it that makes sense. They already identified the increased risk for children, and children are much more political hotspot than athletes.

Soloist, kindly see my note above regarding this as a “no politics” thread.

Please provide an academic link to this data so that this isn’t a political argument. Otherwise this is political and you are seeking to control the conversation over the data. See my point above.

Right now, you are the only person who continues to try to include politics.

If you need the data sets, you can do a keyword search for sports medicine journals.

[Bootstrap]

Right now, you are the only person who continues to try to include politics.

If you need the data sets, you can do a keyword search for sports medicine journals.

Max, please provide a link to the journal article you are talking about.

I cannot find the sports medicine journal article(s) you describe. You are clearly claiming that it exists. I can only find political sources and "viral Internet" stuff.

A link to the article(s) would provide proof and also give us access to the data. Repeating your claim again and again provides no proof at all. And it does nothing to improve our understanding.

[Soloist]

Right now, you are the only person who continues to try to include politics.

If you need the data sets, you can do a keyword search for sports medicine journals.

Really? Okay so since you cannot produce the data and I have a restricted phone I’ll have to assume it doesn’t exist. I don’t engage in politics and I have no affiliation or loyalty to either side. You should know this from how I post in comparison to other posters. Again I have no stake in this but outside of specific groups this data doesn’t seem to exist and it’s not engaging in political speak to ask you to provide the data you are arguing for.

[Ken]

MaxPC is the one engaging in politics by deliberately spreading discredited right-wing political misinformation here about athletes dying of vaccine-related heart conditions and trying to drag Damar Hamlin into their conspiracy theories. This is where the unsupported claims he is making come directly from. And he has the nerve to claim others here are being political?

Here is one story about it in the Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 56004.html

Tucker Carlson calls medical experts ‘witch doctors’ as right-wing figures spread anti-vaccine misinformation after Damar Hamlin’s collapse:

Fox News personality joins other right-wing influencers and conspiracy theorists who blame Buffalo Bills player’s injuries on Covid-19 vaccine

Moments after Buffalo Bills defensive back Damar Hamlin collapsed on the field after making a tackle on 2 January, Covid-19 conspiracy theorists and right-wing personalities baselessly blamed his injuries on vaccine side effects.

Anti-vaccine influencers and right-wing media figures have also shared debunked claims about athletes allegedly collapsing after their vaccinations.

Mr Hamlin remains in critical condition after suffering a cardiac arrest, according to a statement on 3 January from the Bills team. His heartbeat was restored “on the field and he was transferred to the University of Cincinnati Medical Center for further testing and treatment,” the statement said.

On his programme that night, Fox News personality Tucker Carlson falsely stated that Mr Hamlin endured a “heart attack” and said medical experts who dismissed Covid-19-related conspiracy theories are “lying” and “witch doctors”.

“What we don’t know could fill volumes,” he said. “We don’t know the answer and there is no way to know the answer.”

He continued: “Hamlin was lying on the field receiving CPR when self-described medical experts in the media, people with no demonstrated medical ethics at all, effectively witch doctors, decided to use his tragic life-threatening injuries [as] an opportunity to spread still more propaganda about the Covid shots. ‘It could not have been the shot,’ they told you. ‘Shut up.’ They’re lying. They don’t know anything more than we know, which is effectively nothing.”

Cardiologists have suggested that Mr Hamlin likely experience commotio cordis, in which an impact to the chest can cause cardiac arrest.

Mr Carlson, who has stated that he is not vaccinated against Covid-19, has repeatedly misrepresented vaccine efficacy and safety and amplified false claims about vaccines and the public health crisis on his highly watched and influential programme.

Here is another story about how this is being pushed by fringe right-wing media for political reasons: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/01 ... nspiracies

“This is a tragic and all too familiar sight right now: Athletes dropping suddenly,” wrote Charlie Kirk, who leads the pro-Trump youth group Turning Point USA. He shared the tweet, seemingly a reference to the debunked “#DiedSuddenly” meme—a conspiracy theory that blames a wide swath of untimely deaths on vaccines—shortly after the injury occurred, when paramedics were still scrambling to save Hamlin’s life. Celebrity doctor Drew Pinsky and conservative pundit Grant Stinchfield used the same framing to comment on Hamlin’s collapse. “I know what everyone with any common sense is thinking. This isn’t the first time a pro athlete had this happen,” tweeted Stinchfield with syringe emojis, apparently blaming the incident on the NFL’s past vaccine policies.

Hamlin collapsed after a hit to his chest. “His heartbeat was restored on the field and he was transferred to the [University of Cincinnati] Medical Center for further testing and treatment,” the Buffalo Bills wrote in a statement, adding that Hamlin was “listed in critical condition.” The Bills player is not the first professional athlete to sustain such an injury during a live sporting event. In 1998, long before COVID-19 or its vaccines were around, former NHL player Chris Pronger went into cardiac arrest mid-game after taking a hockey puck to the chest. “Prayers that Damar Hamlin can have the same outcome that I was fortunate to have with my incident,” Pronger tweeted on Tuesday.

Of course, decades of medical knowledge on how the phenomenon impacts athletes did not deter other anti-vaxxers from gleefully pouncing on the tragedy. “Welp, a lot of people are going to wake up to the truth tonight,” wrote Rogan O’Handley, a video host for conservative advocacy group PragerU, which has a major online audience, even on college campuses. Actor Kevin Sorbo, meanwhile, was far more explicit in his crackpot assessment. “It’s the jab,” tweeted the TV star turned evangelical filmmaker.

This reaction to Hamlin’s injury is yet another reminder of the long-lasting impacts of the politicization of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has led to a surge in anti-vaccine sentiment. Last year, these sentiments were even heard in the Senate, from Wisconsin Republican Ron Johnson, who repeatedly downplayed the pandemic and promoted unproven home remedies. Johnson himself was an early adopter of the #DiedSuddenly talking point in an interview with Charlie Kirk last January. “We’ve heard story after story…[of] all these athletes dropping dead on the field, but we’re supposed to ignore that,” he said. Johnson was reelected in November.

As for this so-called study about 1011 athletes? You can read all about at any of these links. It wasn't a study but rather a garbage collection of unrelated facts assembled together in a deliberate attempt to misinform.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/01/scich ... ne-claims/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 018611002/
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-c ... 9195878254

From the AP link

CLAIM: Two researchers found that more than 1,500 athletes have suffered cardiac arrest since COVID-19 vaccinations began, compared to a previous average of 29 athletes per year, suggesting the vaccines are causing a dramatic rise in such cardiac issues.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The researchers cited a number from a blog that lists news stories about recent deaths and medical emergencies among people of all ages, from all over the world — some of which were attributed to other causes, such as cancer. The previous figure, meanwhile, is from a 2006 study that specifically reviewed literature for reports of sudden cardiac deaths among athletes under age 35. Comparing the two sources, with different methodologies, is not scientifically sound, experts told The Associated Press.

read the whole thing. It gets worse and worse as they dive into the details.

[Josh]

Asking for medical journals is done in bad faith; we all know anything that does not promote the Covid vaccines won’t get published in a journal.

[Soloist]

Asking for medical journals is done in bad faith; we all know anything that does not promote the Covid vaccines won’t get published in a journal.

Josh, you know me. Max said you could find it in a medical journal and refused to answer or provide the data. I have no problem accepting that the data comes from alternative sources but claiming it comes from one source and either lying or refusing to show the data source…
I would have no problem if he linked to news articles because then it becomes a different discussion. I am always very careful to use only academic data to prove the fetal cell connection and my work is backed up by legitimate sources that cannot be argued with using proper data. I also always back up my data with specific sources or say I am not positive on it.

[MaxPC]

Max said you could find it in a medical journal and refused to answer or provide the data. I have no problem accepting that the data comes from alternative sources but claiming it comes from one source and either lying or refusing to show the data source…

Soloist, your accusation of lying or refusal is based upon your erroneous interpretation of what I said. I stated quite clearly:

If you need the data sets, you can do a keyword search for sports medicine journals.

"Journals" is a plural word in the King's English as it is in American English. "Journals" means more than one. I never said that it came from one source as you claim.

As you have stated you have a phone, I agree that would be quite difficult to do a search of 57 years of data sets from the different sports medicine journals on a phone.

The data sets are not all in one place but in multiple volumes of professional medical journals. Perhaps when you are able to sit down to a computer it will be easier. Using a desktop, those figures took at least a week's worth of search, collation, triple checking and elimination of irrelevant variables to compile.

[Ken]

Asking for medical journals is done in bad faith; we all know anything that does not promote the Covid vaccines won’t get published in a journal.

No, we don't know that at all, because it isn't true. The Mass General Study published by the American Heart Association that started this thread is an example of a study that looks at negative side effects of the vaccines so that disproves your assertion right there.

What is bad faith is to disseminate discredited and fraudulent right-wing propaganda that was created for political reasons and pretend that it is science.

[Soloist]

As you have stated you have a phone, I agree that would be quite difficult to do a search of 57 years of data sets from the different sports medicine journals on a phone.

The data sets are not all in one place but in multiple volumes of professional medical journals. Perhaps when you are able to sit down to a computer it will be easier. Using a desktop, those figures took at least a week's worth of search, collation, triple checking and elimination of irrelevant variables to compile.

And can you show any proof you actually did this? How can you account for this data when the professional articles remove PII? How did you account for unknown data overlap? You would have had to do substantial work to prove any of this and you can’t or won’t provide any proof to your claim. Without proof to support your claim of calculating the data yourself, you are highly likely fabricating this entirely.
“If” and I do stress “if” you actually did this, you would have a document with sourcing and verification of your data to prevent overlap. So either you are a very poor researcher if you didn’t do this, or you are flat out lying.

You have made many claims on here about quite a few things, one of them is academic prowess. Proving even that would support this unsupported claim of yours.
As for my phone, I can’t look outside of Menno. I use a locked down phone. I’ve certainly done plenty of digging in over fetal cells and produced proof whenever challenged.
Please support your claims or continue to refuse and let your silence speak for you.