Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[nett]

Not in the current Ukraine war. And Ukraine has been remarkably clean on that front. Which is one of the reasons they have so much support - they really do seem to have the moral high ground in this war. And of course, David beating Goliath is always a better story than Goliath beating David.

This is why I don't think you are actually non-resistant. You are supporting just war with this statement.

The Ukraine was engaging in all manner of aggressive violence prior to this war. It boggles my mind that you want to align yourself with that.

Ukraine did not make one single attack of any kind on Russia at any time during all the years leading up to Russia's February 2022 invasion.

Did I say they did? Did Germany make a single attack on The US during WW2?

[Bootstrap]

Not in the current Ukraine war. And Ukraine has been remarkably clean on that front. Which is one of the reasons they have so much support - they really do seem to have the moral high ground in this war. And of course, David beating Goliath is always a better story than Goliath beating David.

This is why I don't think you are actually non-resistant. You are supporting just war with this statement.

I'm not supporting rape when I say that the victim has the moral high ground over the rapist.

Non-resistance doesn't require an inability to recognize a military aggressor. Again, not unlike rape. "Oh, she was dressed the wrong way ...." - you don't let a rape trial go down that bunny trail. The rapist bears responsibility for his actions. And many of his excuses turn out to be lies. Most rapists aren't motivated to tell the pure truth.

The Ukraine was engaging in all manner of aggressive violence prior to this war. It boggles my mind that you want to align yourself with that.

Military aggressors use propaganda to justify invasions.

Do you believe that Germany was justified in invading the Sudetenland? Do you believe that Czechoslovakia was equally responsible for that war? Do you believe that Germany's claims about Czech aggression were accurate?

[Ken]

This is why I don't think you are actually non-resistant. You are supporting just war with this statement.

The Ukraine was engaging in all manner of aggressive violence prior to this war. It boggles my mind that you want to align yourself with that.

Ukraine did not make one single attack of any kind on Russia at any time during all the years leading up to Russia's February 2022 invasion.

Did I say they did? Did Germany make a single attack on The US during WW2?

You are defending Russia's military aggression by claiming that Ukraine did the same thing. When that is absolutely false.

As for Germany? Germany declared war on the US not the other way around, and made countless attacks on US shipping in the Battle of the Atlantic which was probably the single most seminal battle of WW2. But yes, Germany was a land power. They did not have the capacity to reach across the Atlantic to conduct any sort of meaningful military invasion. Especially with both the US and British navies in the way. They didn't even have the capacity to invade the UK much less the US.

[Josh]

Not in the current Ukraine war. And Ukraine has been remarkably clean on that front. Which is one of the reasons they have so much support - they really do seem to have the moral high ground in this war. And of course, David beating Goliath is always a better story than Goliath beating David.

This is why I don't think you are actually non-resistant. You are supporting just war with this statement.

I'm not supporting rape when I say that the victim has the moral high ground over the rapist.

Non-resistance doesn't require an inability to recognize a military aggressor. Again, not unlike rape. "Oh, she was dressed the wrong way ...." - you don't let a rape trial go down that bunny trail. The rapist bears responsibility for his actions. And many of his excuses turn out to be lies. Most rapists aren't motivated to tell the pure truth.

The Ukraine was engaging in all manner of aggressive violence prior to this war. It boggles my mind that you want to align yourself with that.

Military aggressors use propaganda to justify invasions.

Do you believe that Germany was justified in invading the Sudetenland? Do you believe that Czechoslovakia was equally responsible for that war? Do you believe that Germany's claims about Czech aggression were accurate?

Do you believe America’s aggression against Germany or Japan is okay?

[Ken]

This is why I don't think you are actually non-resistant. You are supporting just war with this statement.

I'm not supporting rape when I say that the victim has the moral high ground over the rapist.

Non-resistance doesn't require an inability to recognize a military aggressor. Again, not unlike rape. "Oh, she was dressed the wrong way ...." - you don't let a rape trial go down that bunny trail. The rapist bears responsibility for his actions. And many of his excuses turn out to be lies. Most rapists aren't motivated to tell the pure truth.

The Ukraine was engaging in all manner of aggressive violence prior to this war. It boggles my mind that you want to align yourself with that.

Military aggressors use propaganda to justify invasions.

Do you believe that Germany was justified in invading the Sudetenland? Do you believe that Czechoslovakia was equally responsible for that war? Do you believe that Germany's claims about Czech aggression were accurate?

Do you believe America’s aggression against Germany or Japan is okay?

Both Japan and Germany declared war on the United States. Not the other way around.

Both Japan and Germany attacked and invaded vast numbers of countries during the course of WW2. Which ones of those countries welcomed either Germany or Japan with open arms? Maybe Austria but that is about it. I don’t think there was a single country in Asia that could be said to have welcomed Japanese invasion or would have wanted to remain under Japanese occupation in the event of some early armistice to end the war. Likewise in Europe. Other than Austria I don’t think there is a single country that would have willingly wanted to remain under German/Nazi occupation in the event of some armistice in Europe that left the Nazi empire still standing.

Of course there are grounds to criticize America’s conduct in the war. Plenty of them. Ultimately though, the primary strategic decision that drove everything else was the decision to seek unconditional surrender of both Germany and Japan as the ultimate objective. Was that the correct strategic objective? The conduct of both Japan and Germany in the ensuing 75 years since WW2 suggests that was the correct decision. I suspect leaving the Nazis and Japanese militarists in power would not have worked out so well. We know how fast it took Germany to return to offensive war after the end of WW1. Basically 20 years. So that was forefront in the minds of Allied strategists during WW2.

Even ending the war with nuclear weapons is a decision fraught with ambiguity. All of the alternatives could have been more deadly and devastating and/or left the world a more unstable place.

[Bootstrap]

Do you believe that Germany was justified in invading the Sudetenland? Do you believe that Czechoslovakia was equally responsible for that war? Do you believe that Germany's claims about Czech aggression were accurate?

Do you believe America’s aggression against Germany or Japan is okay?

I could not participate in it. I could not okay it. I couldn't really denounce it either, though - Caesar does bear the sword, I clearly do not, and World War II may be one of the clearest examples where Caesar's actions may have actually met the criteria of a Just War. There were atrocities, of course, like the atom bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the carpet bombing in Dresden, that was truly dreadful, and I would speak out against those things. There were also war crimes by American troops. Throwing innocent Japanese into work camps wasn't cool. These are things I would speak out against.

But I would speak out loudest against what Hitler did. Hitler was a level of pure evil that is truly unusual even among world leaders, and his actions resulted in huge loss of human life and a great deal of severely damaged lives. I don't think the United States was the moral equivalent of Hitler in World War II.

How about you?

[Soloist]

And we then stand by while even worse atrocities were committed in Russia. We didn’t get into the war to save Russians, Jews, Poles or anyone else. We got into war because of our own interests.

Why was the crusades not a Just war? Have you considered what was said back then?

[Ken]

And we then stand by while even worse atrocities were committed in Russia. We didn’t get into the war to save Russians, Jews, Poles or anyone else. We got into war because of our own interests.

Why was the crusades not a Just war? Have you considered what was said back then?

We did not stand by. We sent astonishingly immense quantities of war materials to the USSR without which they would not have had the capacity to convert form static defense to mobile offensive campaigns and defeat Germany in the east. The construction of the Alaska Highway and much of US shipping capacity was devoted to this effort. Here is a partial list of what the US supplied to the USSR during the war through the Lend-Lease program.

400,000 jeeps & trucks
14,000 airplanes
8,000 tractors
13,000 tanks
1.5 million blankets
15 million pairs of army boots
107,000 tons of cotton
2.7 million tons of petrol products
4.5 million tons of food

The UK also provided Russia with immense amounts of materials although not on the same sale as the US.

[Josh]

Do you believe that Germany was justified in invading the Sudetenland? Do you believe that Czechoslovakia was equally responsible for that war? Do you believe that Germany's claims about Czech aggression were accurate?

Do you believe America’s aggression against Germany or Japan is okay?

I could not participate in it. I could not okay it. I couldn't really denounce it either, though - Caesar does bear the sword, I clearly do not, and World War II may be one of the clearest examples where Caesar's actions may have actually met the criteria of a Just War. There were atrocities, of course, like the atom bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the carpet bombing in Dresden, that was truly dreadful, and I would speak out against those things. There were also war crimes by American troops. Throwing innocent Japanese into work camps wasn't cool. These are things I would speak out against.

But I would speak out loudest against what Hitler did. Hitler was a level of pure evil that is truly unusual even among world leaders, and his actions resulted in huge loss of human life and a great deal of severely damaged lives. I don't think the United States was the moral equivalent of Hitler in World War II.

How about you?

All war is wrong. And I think it’s pointless to be busy denouncing Hitler unless one is honest and makes the same realisation about the USSR… and then is honest about America.

There were no good guys. There was no just war. War is never justified.

[Ken]

Do you believe America’s aggression against Germany or Japan is okay?

I could not participate in it. I could not okay it. I couldn't really denounce it either, though - Caesar does bear the sword, I clearly do not, and World War II may be one of the clearest examples where Caesar's actions may have actually met the criteria of a Just War. There were atrocities, of course, like the atom bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the carpet bombing in Dresden, that was truly dreadful, and I would speak out against those things. There were also war crimes by American troops. Throwing innocent Japanese into work camps wasn't cool. These are things I would speak out against.

But I would speak out loudest against what Hitler did. Hitler was a level of pure evil that is truly unusual even among world leaders, and his actions resulted in huge loss of human life and a great deal of severely damaged lives. I don't think the United States was the moral equivalent of Hitler in World War II.

How about you?

All war is wrong. And I think it’s pointless to be busy denouncing Hitler unless one is honest and makes the same realisation about the USSR… and then is honest about America.

There were no good guys. There was no just war. War is never justified.

Yes, so don't start one. And build international institutions to prevent war.

But sometimes it still comes to you.