This is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”
PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
As a young child, decades ago, i recall my parents speaking barnhart’s same words about politics.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:14 amThis is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”
They valued the concept of SECRET ballots, they did not join political parties, they did not tell each other who they voted for -
they didn’t say whether they voted or not. i don’t believe they voted regularly. i think because they felt it was useless. but, you can see, from their high regard for SECRET ballots, it’s impossible to know.
SECRET ballots.
i agree with my folks. SECRET is valuable.
however, the system we have does NOT respect the secret aspect.
there is so much (invasive) recording of every voter’s identity/description, too much is known about voters.
when whole sub-groups of folks are known, this is hardly “secret.”
i like the idea of, 1 legal citizen of voting age, 1 secret vote. full stop.
as it has become, evidently, some make full careers out of labeling/micromanaging descriptions of voters to the point votes can be predicted just by looking at a person, knowing their address. SECRET? hardly more than lip-service remains.
As far as what career politicians are (allowing) for today’s candidates? - they allow those THEY can count on to further their stated agenda. They cast a performer, a script reader. It’s a cabal.
Recent example: TULSI GABBARD
Those who show competence are kept quiet. They’re nuisances. No room within.
When people interested in leading realize, to get anywhere, they must leave their chosen party. That’s a clue.
Nope. It does not matter. “They” have no use for “sharp as a tack.”
Being lucky in coin tosses helps.
2016 / The Science Of Hillary Clinton's Coin Toss Victories
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... victories/
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
My grandparents (the non-Menno set) epitomized useless voting. They voted regularly, and did not keep their votes secret. Grandpa voted a straight Republican ticket; Grandma voted straight Democrat. They rarely argued about politics, but they did make sure to get to the polls so they could cancel each other out.
1 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
They might have been neighbors!ohio jones wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:13 pmMy grandparents (the non-Menno set) epitomized useless voting. They voted regularly, and did not keep their votes secret. Grandpa voted a straight Republican ticket; Grandma voted straight Democrat. They rarely argued about politics, but they did make sure to get to the polls so they could cancel each other out.
My parents, secret as they were, used to laugh about the possibility of canceling each other’s votes out! Being so secretive, no way to know. The mystery!
In my life, i’ve rarely voted, now that i think of it, i never talked politics with my 5 sibs, nor even wondered if/how they voted.
At our large family reunions, politics were forbidden.
Looking back now, maybe the Quaker+other CO influence and disdain for the U.S. Civil War, were influencers, without being named.
My oldest elders would have had some memories of their oldest elders who survived CW days. i had a sense that the CW was specially grieved. (These folks lived thru lots of following wars.) The “brother against brother” war hit specially hard. Families divided.
My elders wanted to never return to such a place. Their disdain for war was palpable. (It’s hard to hear people refer to a repeat now.)
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
Maybe it's part of a cycle where the enemies without don't feel as threatening so the national aggression turns inward like an auto immune disease. The enemy is no longer the French, British, Indians, Germans, Russians, Muslims ect but ourselves, the facists and liberals next door, or maybe one county or one state away. Francis Fukayama was mocked for his essay in the late 90's calling the collapse of Soviet Union the "end of history," but I am warming up to his premise. The absence of an external enemy turns the fight inward.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:14 amThis is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
The U.S. is rudderless without a stated enemy.barnhart wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:44 pmMaybe it's part of a cycle where the enemies without don't feel as threatening so the national aggression turns inward like an auto immune disease. The enemy is no longer the French, British, Indians, Germans, Russians, Muslims ect but ourselves, the facists and liberals next door, or maybe one county or one state away. Francis Fukayama was mocked for his essay in the late 90's calling the collapse of Soviet Union the "end of history," but I am warming up to his premise.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:14 amThis is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”
The absence of an external enemy turns the fight inward.
Thus, Ukraine, and the anxious rush revive an old reliable.
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
Which is how it should be.steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:26 am Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
If the state legislatures chose the Senators, as originally designed, and the electoral college really chose the president as originally designed, we'd probably get overall higher quality politicians.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:54 amWhich is how it should be.steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:26 am Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.
If you have the popular vote, you get the popular candidates. Enter Biden, Trump, MJT, J Ventura, Oz and Fetterman...to Jackson, et al.
Let the Representatives be chosen by popular vote as the localities are smaller and real people from the locations represented actually know them.
Perhaps direct election is the problem. As Hamilton said to Jefferson, "Your people sir, are a great beast."
0 x
Re: PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman
I've never felt a greater agreement with you than I do right now!joshuabgood wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:19 pmIf the state legislatures chose the Senators, as originally designed, and the electoral college really chose the president as originally designed, we'd probably get overall higher quality politicians.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:54 amWhich is how it should be.steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:26 am Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.
If you have the popular vote, you get the popular candidates. Enter Biden, Trump, MJT, J Ventura, Oz and Fetterman...to Jackson, et al.
Let the Representatives be chosen by popular vote as the localities are smaller and real people from the locations represented actually know them.
Perhaps direct election is the problem. As Hamilton said to Jefferson, "Your people sir, are a great beast."
0 x