PA state senate: Oz vs. Fetterman

[HondurasKeiser]

We seem to be in an age where the democratic system has crystalized and no longer produces candidates that a majority really wants. Reasonable and moderate candidates are cast aside in favor of the confrontational, extreme or otherwise questionable.

This is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”

[temporal1]

We seem to be in an age where the democratic system has crystalized and no longer produces candidates that a majority really wants. Reasonable and moderate candidates are cast aside in favor of the confrontational, extreme or otherwise questionable.

This is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”

As a young child, decades ago, i recall my parents speaking barnhart’s same words about politics.
They valued the concept of SECRET ballots, they did not join political parties, they did not tell each other who they voted for -
they didn’t say whether they voted or not. i don’t believe they voted regularly. i think because they felt it was useless. but, you can see, from their high regard for SECRET ballots, it’s impossible to know.

SECRET ballots.
i agree with my folks. SECRET is valuable.

however, the system we have does NOT respect the secret aspect.
there is so much (invasive) recording of every voter’s identity/description, too much is known about voters.
when whole sub-groups of folks are known, this is hardly “secret.”

i like the idea of, 1 legal citizen of voting age, 1 secret vote. full stop.
as it has become, evidently, some make full careers out of labeling/micromanaging descriptions of voters to the point votes can be predicted just by looking at a person, knowing their address. SECRET? hardly more than lip-service remains.

As far as what career politicians are (allowing) for today’s candidates? - they allow those THEY can count on to further their stated agenda. They cast a performer, a script reader. It’s a cabal.

Recent example: TULSI GABBARD
Those who show competence are kept quiet. They’re nuisances. No room within.

When people interested in leading realize, to get anywhere, they must leave their chosen party. That’s a clue.

If politicians are basically just going to follow what the party bosses dictate, does it really matter whether they sharp as a tack?

Nope. It does not matter. “They” have no use for “sharp as a tack.”

Being lucky in coin tosses helps.

2016 / The Science Of Hillary Clinton's Coin Toss Victories
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... victories/

[ohio jones]

they did not tell each other who they voted for -
they didn’t say whether they voted or not. i don’t believe they voted regularly. i think because they felt it was useless.

My grandparents (the non-Menno set) epitomized useless voting. They voted regularly, and did not keep their votes secret. Grandpa voted a straight Republican ticket; Grandma voted straight Democrat. They rarely argued about politics, but they did make sure to get to the polls so they could cancel each other out.

[temporal1]

they did not tell each other who they voted for -
they didn’t say whether they voted or not. i don’t believe they voted regularly. i think because they felt it was useless.

My grandparents (the non-Menno set) epitomized useless voting. They voted regularly, and did not keep their votes secret. Grandpa voted a straight Republican ticket; Grandma voted straight Democrat. They rarely argued about politics, but they did make sure to get to the polls so they could cancel each other out.

They might have been neighbors!
My parents, secret as they were, used to laugh about the possibility of canceling each other’s votes out! Being so secretive, no way to know. The mystery!

In my life, i’ve rarely voted, now that i think of it, i never talked politics with my 5 sibs, nor even wondered if/how they voted.

At our large family reunions, politics were forbidden.
Looking back now, maybe the Quaker+other CO influence and disdain for the U.S. Civil War, were influencers, without being named.
My oldest elders would have had some memories of their oldest elders who survived CW days. i had a sense that the CW was specially grieved. (These folks lived thru lots of following wars.) The “brother against brother” war hit specially hard. Families divided.
My elders wanted to never return to such a place. Their disdain for war was palpable. (It’s hard to hear people refer to a repeat now.)

[barnhart]

We seem to be in an age where the democratic system has crystalized and no longer produces candidates that a majority really wants. Reasonable and moderate candidates are cast aside in favor of the confrontational, extreme or otherwise questionable.

This is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”

Maybe it's part of a cycle where the enemies without don't feel as threatening so the national aggression turns inward like an auto immune disease. The enemy is no longer the French, British, Indians, Germans, Russians, Muslims ect but ourselves, the facists and liberals next door, or maybe one county or one state away. Francis Fukayama was mocked for his essay in the late 90's calling the collapse of Soviet Union the "end of history," but I am warming up to his premise. The absence of an external enemy turns the fight inward.

[temporal1]

We seem to be in an age where the democratic system has crystalized and no longer produces candidates that a majority really wants. Reasonable and moderate candidates are cast aside in favor of the confrontational, extreme or otherwise questionable.

This is a really interesting observation and it might be fun to explore why it is that we’ve gotten here in a sociological sense. We can point to election tinkering (primaries, ranked-choice voting vs. first-past-the-post, etc.) and while those are definitely contributing factors. I think the more interesting question is: “how is that our culture has decided that actors, celebrities and fairly unserious people are perfectly acceptable candidates?” “How is that politics has just become another form of entertainment?”

Maybe it's part of a cycle where the enemies without don't feel as threatening so the national aggression turns inward like an auto immune disease. The enemy is no longer the French, British, Indians, Germans, Russians, Muslims ect but ourselves, the facists and liberals next door, or maybe one county or one state away. Francis Fukayama was mocked for his essay in the late 90's calling the collapse of Soviet Union the "end of history," but I am warming up to his premise.

The absence of an external enemy turns the fight inward.

The U.S. is rudderless without a stated enemy.
Thus, Ukraine, and the anxious rush revive an old reliable.

[steve-in-kville]

Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.

[HondurasKeiser]

Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.

Which is how it should be.

[joshuabgood]

Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.

Which is how it should be.

If the state legislatures chose the Senators, as originally designed, and the electoral college really chose the president as originally designed, we'd probably get overall higher quality politicians.

If you have the popular vote, you get the popular candidates. Enter Biden, Trump, MJT, J Ventura, Oz and Fetterman...to Jackson, et al.

Let the Representatives be chosen by popular vote as the localities are smaller and real people from the locations represented actually know them.

Perhaps direct election is the problem. As Hamilton said to Jefferson, "Your people sir, are a great beast."

[HondurasKeiser]

Our senate race has taken a backseat to the Phillies playing in the world series.

Which is how it should be.

If the state legislatures chose the Senators, as originally designed, and the electoral college really chose the president as originally designed, we'd probably get overall higher quality politicians.

If you have the popular vote, you get the popular candidates. Enter Biden, Trump, MJT, J Ventura, Oz and Fetterman...to Jackson, et al.

Let the Representatives be chosen by popular vote as the localities are smaller and real people from the locations represented actually know them.

Perhaps direct election is the problem. As Hamilton said to Jefferson, "Your people sir, are a great beast."

I've never felt a greater agreement with you than I do right now!