Elian Gonzales

[QuietlyListening]

Turns out, there’s no way to encode,
“we want what we want, when we want it, how we want it,” into law of the land.
Be careful what you wish for.

That is most people, whether liberal, conservative, or in between. These days most people want it all their way.

[temporal1]

Turns out, there’s no way to encode,
“we want what we want, when we want it, how we want it,” into law of the land.
Be careful what you wish for.

That is most people, whether liberal, conservative, or in between. These days most people want it all their way.

Not false.
Conservatives, esp believers, have an edge, being exposed to concepts of submission and obedience (first, to God, but also within churches, families, communities) - unfortunately, in the secular world, these core concepts are ignored and dismissed, worship of self is central. Even in many church settings! It’s insidious, it’s affecting .. everything. Pride is normalized, even in many church settings!

People are suffering!
The worst is, they don’t have a clue about the true root of their suffering, it’s hidden from them in every possible way.
For lots of people, “submission” and “obedience” have become dirty words. Just the mention can cause rage!

Praise God for every individual who looks away from the world to seek Truth.
They exist! Evil works hard to convince they do not exist. They exist. Thankfully, they show up even in unexpected places.
That’s the work and gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Sliceitup]

I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.

Using militarized force is something I’m not in favor of. In all the other examples where we’ve been talking about this kind of thing there is no evidence that there was anything close to a militarized swat team being used to carry out warrants. Just because some blowhard on tv called it a swat team does not mean it was an actual swat team. Having a law enforcement officer assist with the warrant doesn’t mean there is a ‘held at gunpoint’ situation.

If the sensationalized things that are being said actually happened in the egg case and the Miller case then I would be infuriated.

[Ken]

I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.

Using militarized force is something I’m not in favor of. In all the other examples where we’ve been talking about this kind of thing there is no evidence that there was anything close to a militarized swat team being used to carry out warrants. Just because some blowhard on tv called it a swat team does not mean it was an actual swat team. Having a law enforcement officer assist with the warrant doesn’t mean there is a ‘held at gunpoint’ situation.

If the sensationalized things that are being said actually happened in the egg case and the Miller case then I would be infuriated.

I don't know of any liberals who defended the particulars of the Elian Gonzales raid then or today. Retrieving the child and returning him to his actual father. Yes. That was the correct thing to do both legally and morally. But not with the sort of armed invasion that they did. Just because it happened at the tail end of the Clinton Administration doesn't mean liberals approved of a raid with automatic weapons and tear gas. They weren't raiding Bin Laden's compound.

From a political standpoint it was an incredibly stupid thing for Janet Reno and the Clinton Administration to do. One could even argue that the Elian Gonzalez raid cost Gore the presidency because it turned a lot of South Florida Cubans against the Clinton Administration of which he was a part.

We are too quick to resort to armed force in this country to resolve disputes that should be resolved more peacefully.

[barnhart]

From a political standpoint it was an incredibly stupid thing for Janet Reno and the Clinton Administration to do. One could even argue that the Elian Gonzalez raid cost Gore the presidency because it turned a lot of South Florida Cubans against the Clinton Administration of which he was a part.

She over reached in other situations as well.

[Grace]

From a political standpoint it was an incredibly stupid thing for Janet Reno and the Clinton Administration to do. One could even argue that the Elian Gonzalez raid cost Gore the presidency because it turned a lot of South Florida Cubans against the Clinton Administration of which he was a part.

She over reached in other situations as well.

She approved the use of tear gas to oust the Branch Davidians from their compound, outside of Waco, Texas. A fire erupted during the ATF and FBI raid and more than 70 Davidians (including 20 children) died during the raid. One notable thing Reno did though, was to publicly take responsibility for the outcome, making a public comment on TV, "I am accountable. The buck stops with me."

[barnhart]

Ruby Ridge.

[Ken]

From a political standpoint it was an incredibly stupid thing for Janet Reno and the Clinton Administration to do. One could even argue that the Elian Gonzalez raid cost Gore the presidency because it turned a lot of South Florida Cubans against the Clinton Administration of which he was a part.

She over reached in other situations as well.

She approved the use of tear gas to oust the Branch Davidians from their compound, outside of Waco, Texas. A fire erupted during the ATF and FBI raid and more than 70 Davidians (including 20 children) died during the raid. One notable thing Reno did though, was to publicly take responsibility for the outcome, making a public comment on TV, "I am accountable. The buck stops with me."

I think she was actually appointed and sworn in when the Branch Davidian raid was happening. It was basically the first thing on her plate. I expect the FBI and ATF basically just presented their operational plan and the DOJ wasn't in a position to actually say much about it and mostly just had to defer to the FBI.

Refreshing my memory by looking it up on Wikipedia. She was actually Clinton's third choice for AG after he first to picks didn't make it through the confirmation process: Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood due to nanny issues (failure to pay social security for undocumented immigrant nannies). So she didn't come on board with the Justice department until into March 1993

February 28, 1993: Branch Davidian initial raid.
March 12, 1993: Janet Reno Confirmed and sworn in as AG
April 19, 1993: Final siege of the compound that set it afire

Basically it was a giant fiasco before she even took office and she walked right into the middle of the mess. I would blame the FBI much more than Reno frankly.

The FBI director at the time was William Sessions who was appointed by Reagan in 1987 and served all through the 1st Bush Administration and into the Clinton Administration. He also happened to have both his undergraduate degree and law degree from Baylor University in Waco so Waco was his home stomping grounds for the better part of a decade and he practiced law in Waco after graduation until getting appointed as a Federal judge in Texas and then eventually getting appointed to the Justice Department and then head of the FBI.

If anyone was to blame for Waco I would think it would have been FBI director Sessions rather than his completely brand new boss Janet Reno. Sessions was also the FBI director for the Ruby Ridge fiasco which happened in summer 1992 during the last year of the first Bush Administration.

[Josh]

Ah, yes, the classic Democratic answer to when they do something like burn a building full of children alive: "It's actually Reagan's fault."

[Blondie54]

Agree, josh