Coronavirus Outbreak

[Ken]

That's a nice hypothetical, now back to reality.

How can I get you to acknowledge that the UK was 75% vaccinated. Not 99%, not 90%, 75%

75 is less than 95, you get the picture yet? Should I try a bat signal, carrier pigeon?

Again just in case I wasn't clear:

For period of the graph I posted, the UK was 75% fully vaccinated

Here are the actual vaccination rates by age for the UK. These are not totally up to date. I can't find newer data in graph form but the report I linked to upstream has the data tables if you want to go find them: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... al-edition

In any event, none of this tossing around of random disparate statistics makes any difference. The only relevant information is death rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age cohort. If you want to talk about vaccine effectiveness in the UK or anywhere else I suggest you find that information.




And displayed over time they look like this

[nett]

That's a nice hypothetical, now back to reality.

How can I get you to acknowledge that the UK was 75% vaccinated. Not 99%, not 90%, 75%

75 is less than 95, you get the picture yet? Should I try a bat signal, carrier pigeon?

Again just in case I wasn't clear:

For period of the graph I posted, the UK was 75% fully vaccinated

Here are the actual vaccination rates by age for the UK. These are not totally up to date. I can't find newer data in graph form but the report I linked to upstream has the data tables if you want to go find them: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... al-edition

In any event, none of this tossing around of random disparate statistics makes any difference. The only relevant information is death rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age cohort. If you want to talk about vaccine effectiveness in the UK or anywhere else I suggest you find that information.

That data is available in the 2nd to last report, and it shows a higher death rate for the vaccinated cohort across all age groups, I already told you that. There are no large outliers, the vaccinated cohort has just started dying of COVID more. This is despite the fraudulent decision to not consider someone vaccinated until 21 days after their last dose. I can't wait to see how is that going to work when you have to get a booster every month. You'll only be vaccinated for 9 days per month!!!

now about those graphs, I love it when you do my work for me

They show that the most vaccinated age cohort in the UK tops out at a 95% vaccination rate, yet 95% of all deaths are vaccinated. That means at best, the vaccines have no efficacy, but in reality, it's worse than that, because the deaths are certainly not exclusively occurring in that 95% vaccinated cohort.

If you have no age cohort that exceeds the death rate in the combined vaccinated cohort, then you can't make the argument you're making. You actually showed this in your silly example where the vaccination rate far exceeded the death rate in the vaccinated cohort.

Doing equations in phpbb is frustrating, but there is a proof of what I'm saying based on the Squeeze theorem.

the wording would be.

"if no single age cohort exceeds the experiment rate of the endpoint rate in the combined experiment cohort, then the experiment is either not correlated with the endpoint, or there is a reverse correlation"

[Ken]

That's a nice hypothetical, now back to reality.

How can I get you to acknowledge that the UK was 75% vaccinated. Not 99%, not 90%, 75%

75 is less than 95, you get the picture yet? Should I try a bat signal, carrier pigeon?

Again just in case I wasn't clear:

For period of the graph I posted, the UK was 75% fully vaccinated

Here are the actual vaccination rates by age for the UK. These are not totally up to date. I can't find newer data in graph form but the report I linked to upstream has the data tables if you want to go find them: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... al-edition

In any event, none of this tossing around of random disparate statistics makes any difference. The only relevant information is death rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age cohort. If you want to talk about vaccine effectiveness in the UK or anywhere else I suggest you find that information.

That data is available in the 2nd to last report, and it shows a higher death rate for the vaccinated cohort across all age groups, I already told you that. There are no large outliers, the vaccinated cohort has just started dying of COVID more. This is despite the fraudulent decision to not consider someone vaccinated until 21 days after their last dose. I can't wait to see how is that going to work when you have to get a booster every month. You'll only be vaccinated for 9 days per month!!!

now about those graphs, I love it when you do my work for me

They show that the most vaccinated age cohort in the UK tops out at a 95% vaccination rate, yet 95% of all deaths are vaccinated. That means at best, the vaccines have no efficacy, but in reality, it's worse than that, because the deaths are certainly not exclusively occurring in that 95% vaccinated cohort.

If you have no age cohort that exceeds the death rate in the combined vaccinated cohort, then you can't make the argument you're making. You actually showed this in your silly example where the vaccination rate far exceeded the death rate in the vaccinated cohort.

Doing equations in phpbb is frustrating, but there is a proof of what I'm saying based on the Squeeze theorem.

the wording would be.

"if no single age cohort exceeds the experiment rate of the endpoint rate in the combined experiment cohort, then the experiment is either not correlated with the endpoint, or there is a reverse correlation"

You still haven't shown us a single piece of data to support your claim that Covid death rates are higher for the fully vaccinated than the unvaccinated in the UK by age group or otherwise. That is YOUR claim not mine. I would expect that a smart guy like you could support your claims.

[nett]

You still haven't shown us a single piece of data to support your claim that Covid death rates are higher for the fully vaccinated than the unvaccinated in the UK by age group or otherwise. That is YOUR claim not mine. I would expect that a smart guy like you could support your claims.

Never said I could. "Fully vaccinated" is a moving target that is clearly being manipulated to show the efficacy signals that are desired, however the raw data is clear, vaccination increases your chance of death from COVID, at least in the UK.

[Josh]

Why should people under 18 get vaccinated if their risk of death is basically zero from COVID?

[Ken]

Why should people under 18 get vaccinated if their risk of death is basically zero from COVID?

Covid vaccines serve four purposes

1. Deaths: Vaccines reduce the mortality rate of COVID which is very low for those under age 18 but not ZERO. Approximately 1500 children have died of Covid since the start of the pandemic. That is more than for any of the other diseases for which children are currently vaccinated.

2. Hospitalizations: Vaccinations reduce the severity of the disease for most people who are vaccinated and still catch it. So even if children are at a low risk of dying, being vaccinated does protect against contracting a more severe case of the disease. Many thousands of children have been hospitalized for severe cases of COVID.

3. Infections: The more recent variants are orders of magnitude more infectious than the original strains so that vaccines are less effective in preventing infections than they used to be. But they do still confer some protection against infection and reduce the severity of the disease for those vaccinated individuals who still catch it.

4. Community spread: A big reason for vaccinations is to prevent community spread and outbreaks. That requires widespread community vaccination even of people who have a low risk of dying. That is why we still vaccinate for polio even though the risk of dying of polio today is also basically zero. The disease is under control because we do widespread vaccinations. So vaccinating my child for polio protects others in the community and vice versa. Even a vaccine that is only 50% effective against infection and transmission can reduce or eliminate outbreaks if it reduces the R value of the disease to below 1.0.

That is why we vaccinated our youngest daughter who is under 18. We aren't particularly afraid that she is at risk of dying of Covid. But having a high community rate of vaccination among children helps prevent the spread of COVID in our community and keeps outbreaks to a minimum. Our daughter also does not live in a bubble. She is in contact with others who are vulnerable. She has classmates who are immunocompromised. And she interacts with my parents who are in their late 80s and therefore, vulnerable to the disease even though they are vaccinated too. So making sure that she is vaccinated against COVID as well as other infectious diseases like Measles (which also has a low death rate) is just part of responsible public health and living in a civilized modern society.

[Josh]

If the vaccines work so well for people over 18, then why do you need to worry about "community spread"?

Ken, face it: this vaccine doesn't work, and it doesn't do any good to put levels of faith that would make a revival preacher blush into them.

[nett]

Why should people under 18 get vaccinated if their risk of death is basically zero from COVID?

Covid vaccines serve four purposes

1. Deaths: Vaccines reduce the mortality rate of COVID which is very low for those under age 18 but not ZERO. Approximately 1500 children have died of Covid since the start of the pandemic. That is more than for any of the other diseases for which children are currently vaccinated.

2. Hospitalizations: Vaccinations reduce the severity of the disease for most people who are vaccinated and still catch it. So even if children are at a low risk of dying, being vaccinated does protect against contracting a more severe case of the disease. Many thousands of children have been hospitalized for severe cases of COVID.

3. Infections: The more recent variants are orders of magnitude more infectious than the original strains so that vaccines are less effective in preventing infections than they used to be. But they do still confer some protection against infection and reduce the severity of the disease for those vaccinated individuals who still catch it.

4. Community spread: A big reason for vaccinations is to prevent community spread and outbreaks. That requires widespread community vaccination even of people who have a low risk of dying. That is why we still vaccinate for polio even though the risk of dying of polio today is also basically zero. The disease is under control because we do widespread vaccinations. So vaccinating my child for polio protects others in the community and vice versa. Even a vaccine that is only 50% effective against infection and transmission can reduce or eliminate outbreaks if it reduces the R value of the disease to below 1.0.

That is why we vaccinated our youngest daughter who is under 18. We aren't particularly afraid that she is at risk of dying of Covid. But having a high community rate of vaccination among children helps prevent the spread of COVID in our community and keeps outbreaks to a minimum. Our daughter also does not live in a bubble. She is in contact with others who are vulnerable. She has classmates who are immunocompromised. And she interacts with my parents who are in their late 80s and therefore, vulnerable to the disease even though they are vaccinated too. So making sure that she is vaccinated against COVID as well as other infectious diseases like Measles (which also has a low death rate) is just part of responsible public health and living in a civilized modern society.

And this is why New Zealand is experiencing such overwhelming success in their campaign against COVID

[Ken]

Again Nett, you are putting up some random data that has nothing to do with death rates for the fully vaccinated vs death rates for the unvaccinated in New Zealand or anywhere else. According to your data source, there have only been 1,697 COVID deaths in the entire country of New Zealand since the pandemic began in March 2020. That seems pretty good. That is about 15% less total deaths than, for example, the Menno hotspot of Lancaster County PA which has had 1,936 COVID deaths since the beginning of the pandemic despite having 10-times fewer people than New Zealand. By this simple comparison I have to conclude that New Zealand is doing about 12-times better than Lancaster County.

Which part of the US do you live in? Can we compare your community to New Zealand? Or are you too embarrassed by your local numbers to reveal them?

I can only conclude that you simply can't find any data anywhere in the world that actually supports your point.

[nett]

Which part of the US do you live in? Can we compare your community to New Zealand? Or are you too embarrassed by your local numbers to reveal them?

Speaking of red herrings. Just take a moment to think about that fact that you are New Zealand's response, where after 2 years of brutal lockdowns, in a population with a serious suicide problem, they are experiencing the worst COVID case numbers in the world.

I really think true believers like you would prefer everyone die of starvation and suicide than a single person die of COVID. It's a strange faith you hold to.

I can only conclude that you simply can't find any data anywhere in the world that actually supports your point.

Lol, this literally after you posted a graph proving my point that in the UK despite the MOST vaccinated single cohort being 95% vaccinated, 95% of deaths are vaccinated people.

What data would you like to see, the NHS data clearly shows that vaccinated people in all age cohorts are more likely to contract and die of COVID. What else is there to see?