Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

The non-aligned movement are countries that don't see a need to either be Western client states or USSR client states. This movement has been around for a long time. India would be the most significant example of such a country.

If you observe Indian media very much, there is a different dominant narrative there than the one in the West.

[Ken]

Did Ukraine hit the ship, or was it an on-board “accident?” Was it damaged or did it sink? Define “sunk.”
“Sunk” could mean, crippled. A colloquial use.

It’s hard to believe all 500 on board were rescued. i don’t care about the warship, but, 500 souls, and their loved ones.
Maybe many injured, many fatalities?? It’s hard to imagine no fatalities.

The Russians confirm that it was actually sunk. But they don't admit it was by Ukrainian missile attack.

Apparently the Russian navy blowing up and sinking its own flagship is a less embarrassing story than being sunk by Ukraine?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

A Russian warship that was damaged by an explosion on Wednesday has sunk, Russia's defence ministry has said.

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.

The 510-crew missile cruiser was a symbol of Russia's military power, leading its naval assault on Ukraine.

Kyiv says its missiles hit the warship. Moscow has not reported any attack. It says the vessel sank after a fire.

The blaze caused the explosion of the warship's ammunition, Russia says, adding that the entire crew were later evacuated. It provided no further details.

After saying initially the warship was afloat, late on Thursday Russian state media broke the news that the Moskva had been lost.

[mike]

Potentially only 14 sailors rescued out of hundreds on board.

[temporal1]

Potentially only 14 sailors rescued out of hundreds on board.
https://twitter

i loathe to say it, but, from history, this seems more likely in such a scenario.

i’m sorry the Pope’s call for an Easter truce, along with millions+millions of prayers for resolution/peace, have not yet ended this.

It's my impression that none of the dozen or so Orthodox patriarchs pay much attention to what the Pope has to say.
If one or more (ideally all) of those guys would call for a cessation of violence rather than egging on their respective national interests, maybe somebunny would listen.

The Eastern church hasn’t been listening to the Western church about geopolitical matters for 968 years, but maybe things will change now.

i know little of EO, esp not Russian or Ukrainian, but, in practical terms, i doubt Pope Francis, in particular, would be winning their hearts. He’s having enough problems with Catholics. But, a prayer for an Easter truce is still a prayer for a truce. That we could pray would lead to resolution or even peace.

[temporal1]

The amount of propaganda that gets repeated in this thread is absurd.
We almost need a "Glorious Russia defends against Ukrainian hordes 2022" thread to counterbalance it.

Or maybe we could just make a new forum subsection called "Pravda".

Voddie Baucham refers to LIBERATION THEOLOGY (video, Page 152).
Honestly, maybe Liberation Theology is what’s behind a lot of the thinking on this topic, and on this forum??

Even when i was very young, i recall hearing bits about how the U.S. “likes the underdog” in every scenario.
i just had not connected a theology, or even political ideology, in that way.

i’m going to be thinking more about it.

Liberation Theology
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essa ... -theology/

DEFINITION
The theology of liberation is a combination of Marxist philosophy with certain biblical motifs.
It argues that we should reconstruct the whole of Christian theology by seeing it through the “axis of the oppressor and the oppressed.” ..

it continues ..

[Josh]

Navies are sitting ducks in modern warfare. Most countries don’t want to expose this so they avoid trying to sink each other’s fleets.

[Ken]

Navies are sitting ducks in modern warfare. Most countries don’t want to expose this so they avoid trying to sink each other’s fleets.

I expect China and Taiwan are paying close attention. Taiwan has its own very high-tech defense industry and is building state-of-the-art anti-ship missiles as fast as they can. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would have to be an amphibious invasion. If the Ukrainians can take out Russia's flagship, I expect the Chinese will have to worry much about what large numbers of Taiwanese missiles could do to a Chinese invasion fleet.

If anything at all good comes out of this war it might be that future aggressors may think twice about launching wars of aggression in a world where cheap handheld missiles and drones can take out multi-million dollar tanks from 5 miles away, and guided missiles can take out capital ships from 100 miles away.

War doesn't stop just because it becomes more deadly. But it might slow down if it becomes too costly.

[temporal1]

BBC / Sunken Russian warship Moskva: What do we know?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61103927

Russia's flagship Black Sea missile cruiser has sunk after being "seriously damaged", Russian state media says.
The defence ministry said ammunition on the Moskva exploded in an unexplained fire and that the ship tipped over while being towed back to port.

Ukraine claims it struck the vessel with its Neptune missiles.

The 510-crew warship had led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine, which made it an important symbolic and military target.
Earlier in the conflict the Moskva gained notoriety after calling on Ukrainian border troops defending Snake Island in the Black Sea to surrender - to which they memorably radioed a message of refusal which loosely translates as "go to hell".

Unexplained fire or a missile attack?
Prior to the sinking, Russia's defence ministry issued a statement saying "the vessel is seriously damaged.
The entire crew have been evacuated".

On Thursday afternoon, it said a fire onboard had been contained and that it would be towing the warship back to port.
But a statement issued later on Thursday said that, while being towed, the ship "lost its balance due to damage sustained in the hull".
"Given the choppy seas, the vessel sank," it said.

Moscow again blamed the blast on an unexplained fire, making no mention of any missile strike.

But Ukraine says it is responsible for an attack on the cruiser, which it claims it targeted with recently-introduced Ukrainian-made missiles.

In a Facebook post before the ship sank, Ukrainian officials said Russian rescue efforts were being hampered by ammunition exploding on board and bad weather.

The BBC has not been able to verify either claim. ..

i believe the last sentence. the report continues ..

[Ken]

BBC / Sunken Russian warship Moskva: What do we know?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61103927

Russia's flagship Black Sea missile cruiser has sunk after being "seriously damaged", Russian state media says.
The defence ministry said ammunition on the Moskva exploded in an unexplained fire and that the ship tipped over while being towed back to port.

Ukraine claims it struck the vessel with its Neptune missiles.

The 510-crew warship had led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine, which made it an important symbolic and military target.
Earlier in the conflict the Moskva gained notoriety after calling on Ukrainian border troops defending Snake Island in the Black Sea to surrender - to which they memorably radioed a message of refusal which loosely translates as "go to hell".

Unexplained fire or a missile attack?
Prior to the sinking, Russia's defence ministry issued a statement saying "the vessel is seriously damaged.
The entire crew have been evacuated".

On Thursday afternoon, it said a fire onboard had been contained and that it would be towing the warship back to port.
But a statement issued later on Thursday said that, while being towed, the ship "lost its balance due to damage sustained in the hull".
"Given the choppy seas, the vessel sank," it said.

Moscow again blamed the blast on an unexplained fire, making no mention of any missile strike.

But Ukraine says it is responsible for an attack on the cruiser, which it claims it targeted with recently-introduced Ukrainian-made missiles.

In a Facebook post before the ship sank, Ukrainian officials said Russian rescue efforts were being hampered by ammunition exploding on board and bad weather.

The BBC has not been able to verify either claim. ..

i believe the last sentence. the report continues ..

Another unknown was whether it was carrying nuclear weapons that are now at the bottom of the Black Sea. It reportedly carried nuclear missiles during the cold war when it was part of the USSR Navy.

[mike]

90% women and children.