March in DC January 6

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Bootstrap
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by Bootstrap »

Falco Underhill wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:09 am The trouble is they could not even get him convicted of an impeachable offense, so how are they supposed to prove a criminal offense? On the same "evidence" that didn't work in the Senate?
I do not know what will ultimately pan out, and I don't think we know what evidence they have until they go to court and we see the results.

But impeachment is a political thing, not a judicial thing, the votes were closely along party lines, the rules of evidence are significantly different, the political pressures on members of Congress will not be present on the jury or judges in the same way. So it's quite possible that a president could be found guilty or liable even though he wasn't impeached. And there are also quite a few investigations and trials about other things involving the Trump Corporation and other things.

In general, time is the best way to find out what will happen. Most of our advance speculation winds up being useless churn.
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Josh
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:48 pm
Falco Underhill wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:09 am The trouble is they could not even get him convicted of an impeachable offense, so how are they supposed to prove a criminal offense? On the same "evidence" that didn't work in the Senate?
I do not know what will ultimately pan out, and I don't think we know what evidence they have until they go to court and we see the results.

But impeachment is a political thing, not a judicial thing, the votes were closely along party lines, the rules of evidence are significantly different, the political pressures on members of Congress will not be present on the jury or judges in the same way. So it's quite possible that a president could be found guilty or liable even though he wasn't impeached. And there are also quite a few investigations and trials about other things involving the Trump Corporation and other things.

In general, time is the best way to find out what will happen. Most of our advance speculation winds up being useless churn.
That's not correct that impeachment is "political". Impeachment is the judicial process described in the Constitution for dealing with a sitting U.S. President.

Wanting to have show trials of one's political opponents, on the other hand, very much is "political", and would politicise the judicial system and give it less legitimacy. I don't see how this is remotely a good thing.
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Falco Underhill
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by Falco Underhill »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:48 pmIn general, time is the best way to find out what will happen. Most of our advance speculation winds up being useless churn.
All this speculation about putting Trump on charges sounds like useless churn to me.
Last edited by Falco Underhill on Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bootstrap
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by Bootstrap »

Falco Underhill wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:21 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:48 pmIn general, time is the best way to find out what will happen. Most of our advance speculation winds up being useless churn.
All this speculation about putting Trump on charges sounds like useless churn to me.
I agree.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by JimFoxvog »

It's getting less speculative.
Jan. 6 panel argues Trump was involved in ‘criminal conspiracy’ to overturn election
The House committee said in a court filing that members of the Trump campaign may have been involved as well.
March 2, 2022, 9:13 PM CST
By Phil Helsel and Garrett Haake

The House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol argued in a new court filing that former President Donald Trump and members of his campaign were part of conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results.

“The Select Committee...has a good-faith basis for concluding that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States,” the panel wrote in legal brief filed Wednesday.
...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -rcna18465
The actual court filing can be found here: https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... ted%29.pdf
Most of the long filing deals more with attorney-client privilege, not the committee's "good-faith basis for concluding that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States." That section starts on page 43.
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temporal1
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by temporal1 »

“may reveal”
ABC: ^^
The brief argues for a court review of the disputed materials, and it says there is evidence to support a belief that a review
may reveal that the President and members of his Campaign engaged in common law fraud in connection with their efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.”

“consider decertifying”
Robert wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:16 am https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... le-nursing
he former judge named to investigate Wisconsin's 2020 election declared Tuesday there is enough evidence of voting irregularities for the Legislature to consider decertifying the state's final results declaring Joe Biden the winner.

Retired Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Mike Gableman presented a 136-page report outlining the preliminary results of his probe to the state Assembly, offering evidence of several irregularities including that "most vulnerable" nursing home residents had been defrauded of their votes.

His conclusions followed two major court rulings that declared election rules changes enacted in 2020 – which allowed for ballot drop boxes to be used and voters to skip ID requirements by declaring themselves "indefinitely confined" by COVID – were illegal. Those rulings call into question tens of thousands of ballots cast in a state where Biden won by less than 21,000 votes.

"I believe the Legislature should take a very hard look at the option of decertification of the 2020 Wisconsin presidential election," Gableman testified to lawmakers.


Time MIGHT tell.
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Robert
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by Robert »

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022 ... january-6/

I do not usually use Breitbart for news, but not seeing this other places.
A Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times reporter allegedly claimed, “There were a ton of FBI informants amongst the people” at the Capitol on January 6, according to a video released by Project Veritas.

Matthew Rosenberg is the New York Times’s national security correspondent and co-author of “The Next Big Lies: Jan. 6 Was No Big Deal, or a Left-Wing Plot.” In that article, New York Times reporters wrote that conservative outlets’ suggestions that “the F.B.I. planted agents to stir up the crowd” is a “false flag,” “instant rewriting of history,” and a “reimagining” of January 6.

However, Rosenberg contradicted his reporting when speaking to an undercover Project Veritas reporter. Rosenberg reportedly said the New York Times “went and uncovered the fact that like, there were a ton of FBI informants amongst the people who attacked the Capitol.”

He went on to explain how the Times is allegedly circumventing intelligence agencies’ ban on officers speaking with reporters by reaching out and speaking with “people who have recently left who are still talking to people on the inside [CIA / NSA] because people on the inside [CIA / NSA] cannot talk.”

Portions of the video released by Project Veritas reportedly show Rosenberg explaining how he got “sucked into” writing an article for the January 6 anniversary by his managing editor at the Times. Rosenberg spoke about a story he was working on at the time that Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe identified as The Next Big Lies report.
Here is the Veritas video. They bleeped out the cuss words, but if that bothers you, don't hit play.

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temporal1
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by temporal1 »

Due process:
This speaks to media’s popular hyperbole: [media AND prosectors push inflammatory language]

“ ‘A Very Big Deal’: Attorney Responds to Judge Dismissing Felony Obstruction Charge Against Jan. 6 Defendant”
Ruling could eventually affect dozens of cases, attorney says
https://www.theepochtimes.com/federal-j ... 25257.html
A federal judge has thrown out a felony obstruction charge leveled against a Jan. 6 defendant, saying the man’s alleged conduct doesn’t fall under the statute used by prosecutors in dozens of cases related to the 2021 breach of the U.S. Capitol.

U.S. District Judge Carl J. Nichols dismissed one of the 12 counts against defendant Garret A. Miller, 35, of Richardson, Texas.

In a 29-page ruling (pdf) on March 7, Nichols, a Trump nominee, wrote that the federal indictment of Miller doesn’t allege the kind of conduct covered by 18 § U.S.C. 1512(c)(2), which relates to the destruction of records or documents—not the attempt to prevent the counting of presidential electors by Congress.
29 pages:
https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/up ... 72.0_2.pdf

Nothing in Count Three (or the Indictment more generally) alleges, let alone implies, that Miller took some action with respect to a document, record, or other object in order to corruptly obstruct, impede or influence Congress’s certification of the electoral vote,” Nichols wrote, granting Miller’s motion to dismiss the charge.

The subsection of 18 § U.S.C. used widely by prosecutors against Jan. 6 defendants was approved by Congress as part of the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002, to close a loophole in the law that was discovered in the wake of the Enron corporate fraud and accounting scandal.

Nichols wrote that the subsection was intended by Congress to have a narrow, limited focus related to the destruction of documents. It’s part of a section of the U.S. Code titled “Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant.”

Even though the wording could be interpreted in various ways, in such a situation, “the Court must ‘exercise restraint in assessing the reach of a federal criminal statute,’” Nichols wrote, citing United States v. Aguilar.

Miller still faces a range of charges for civil disorder, assaulting, impeding, or resisting police, interstate threats to injure or kidnap, disorderly conduct in a restricted building, and others. Prosecutors allege Miller threatened U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) when he posted on Twitter, “Assassinate AOC.”

Miller also stated in a social media post, “It was not a coup. We where [sic] gentle with police. We where unharmed. We overwhelmed them but did not injure them.”
.. Miller’s attorneys argued, in a June 2021 motion to dismiss, that provisions in that part of 18 U.S.C. relate to the administration of justice, such as retaliating against a witness, influencing a juror, or “picketing or parading” near the home of a judge, witness, or court officer with the intention of obstructing the administration of justice.

“As all these laws are related to the obstruction of the administration of justice and serve to protect participants in the administration of justice, it follows that, in order to violate Section 1512(c), there must be some allegation that the ‘official proceeding’ allegedly obstructed, in fact, related to the administration of justice,” the motion reads.

:arrow: Prosecutors have tried to stretch the law “beyond its plain meaning and beyond the intent of Congress when it enacted it,” :-|
Miller’s motion said.

i did not have any part in Jan 6, didn’t view on TV or other. not my way. i wouldn’t have marched peacefully, nor climbed around on buildings taking selfies.

from what i’ve read, i believe this was the 19th march this group had, i heard of NONE of them, until reading about this one, on this forum. 19 peaceful marches.

i’m not a supporter of railroading by lib media and, notoriously+for-big-profit, prosecutors.

Hopefully, a miracle will happen to restrain the internet from becoming the “greatest tool ever for mob rule.” :-|
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JimFoxvog
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Re: March in DC January 6

Post by JimFoxvog »

Robert wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:41 am Here is the Veritas video.
Has Veritas ever done anything honest?
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Robert
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Re: March in DC January 6

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JimFoxvog wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:38 pm
Robert wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:41 am Here is the Veritas video.
Has Veritas ever done anything honest?
I think they are much more honest then most of the main stream media.

Interesting you comment on the source instead of the material.
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