Coronavirus Outbreak

[nett]

I'm just responding to Josh's assertion that because Holmes County has a low Covid case rate because people are unvaccinated. When it is most likely just because symptomatic people just don't get tested at the same rate in Holmes County. If you refuse to look for something then you won't find it. In point of fact, Holmes County is doing substantially worse than average on the more meaningful metrics of hospitalizations and deaths. Both the hospitalization and death rate in Holmes County put it among the worst counties in Ohio and worse than even the most hard-hit state of Mississippi.

As for whether there is misery or not? Drowning in your own bodily fluids while you struggle desperately for breath sounds pretty miserable to me. But perhaps your definition of the term is somewhat different than mine.

The point is not that Holmes County is experiencing the Black Death like Medieval Europe. No place is. The point is that that when you actually look at the data it is faring worse than most other places rather than better.

If I'm to understand you correctly, you're saying an IFR of .2% is smashing success, but an IFR is .3% is misery and death?

put another way, if 3 out of 1000 people have died, coded as COVID, then it's misery and death, but if 2 out of 1000 die, that's success, and means the vaccines are working

in Holmes most young, healthy people are not vaccinated, and therefore will not have to worry about getting boosters, or dealing with long term side effects, meanwhile, the county has remained relatively open, and most small business are doing great, and Holmes remains below state averages in suicides.

That all sounds like good things to me.

I do wonder why Holmes dashboard is so out of date. I called and left a message asking why. Hopefully they get back to me.

[Ken]

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong. I'm in Holmes county pretty regularly. It's not full of misery and death, it's not even close. People there are largely over COVID.

142 people have died coded as COVID in Holmes county.

Here's some misery and death for you, from a vaccine fanatic.



I think there is a significant portion of the population that would rather die of COVID, than be vaccinated and live under that kind of delusional fear.

I'm just responding to Josh's assertion that because Holmes County has a low Covid case rate because people are unvaccinated. When it is most likely just because symptomatic people just don't get tested at the same rate in Holmes County. If you refuse to look for something then you won't find it. In point of fact, Holmes County is doing substantially worse than average on the more meaningful metrics of hospitalizations and deaths. Both the hospitalization and death rate in Holmes County put it among the worst counties in Ohio and worse than even the most hard-hit state of Mississippi.

As for whether there is misery or not? Drowning in your own bodily fluids while you struggle desperately for breath sounds pretty miserable to me. But perhaps your definition of the term is somewhat different than mine.

The point is not that Holmes County is experiencing the Black Death like Medieval Europe. No place is. The point is that that when you actually look at the data it is faring worse than most other places rather than better.

Ken,

I know a lot of people, yet I know exactly zero people who have died of covid in Holmes, Wayne, and Tusc. Counties. If this were really such a major pandemic I’d know more dead people.

152 residents of Holmes County have died of Covid since the pandemic began including 9 in the past 2 weeks. Hundreds more have been hospitalized. That is out of a county of 46,000 people. How many more would need to die until you started to notice?

Again, my point is not that Holmes County is facing Covid Armageddon. But that statistically it is doing much worse than most other parts of the US rather than much better as you implied.

[Ken]

If I'm to understand you correctly, you're saying an IFR of .2% is smashing success, but an IFR is .3% is misery and death?

put another way, if 3 out of 1000 people have died, coded as COVID, then it's misery and death, but if 2 out of 1000 die, that's success, and means the vaccines are working

in Holmes most young, healthy people are not vaccinated, and therefore will not have to worry about getting boosters, or dealing with long term side effects, meanwhile, the county has remained relatively open, and most small business are doing great, and Holmes remains below state averages in suicides.

That all sounds like good things to me.

I do wonder why Holmes dashboard is so out of date. I called and left a message asking why. Hopefully they get back to me.

That isn't my point at all. Josh highlighted Holmes County as a Covid success story compared to the rest of the country because in the current Covid case rate map it is lighter color than the surrounding counties and region. I simply took a deeper dive into the data to see if indeed Holmes County is doing better than the rest of the state of Ohio or country at large. And it turns out no. The opposite is actually true. Holmes County is, in fact, doing much worse when you look at the metrics that actually matter: Hospitalizations and death.

There probably isn't any place in the US that could be considered a smashing success when it comes to preventing Covid. You would probably have to look to countries like New Zealand with 50 Covid deaths since the beginning of the pandemic to see what smashing success looks like.

[nett]

That isn't my point at all. Josh highlighted Holmes County as a Covid success story compared to the rest of the country because in the current Covid case rate map it is lighter color than the surrounding counties and region. I simply took a deeper dive into the data to see if indeed Holmes County is doing better than the rest of the state of Ohio or country at large. And it turns out no. The opposite is actually true. Holmes County is, in fact, doing much worse when you look at the metrics that actually matter: Hospitalizations and death.

There probably isn't any place in the US that could be considered a smashing success when it comes to preventing Covid. You would probably have to look to countries like New Zealand with 50 Covid deaths since the beginning of the pandemic to see what smashing success looks like.

So deaths are now the only thing that matter.

So if no one dies of COVID, but the entire country becomes suicidal due to a lack of human connection or meaningful work, that is still a huge success in your mind.

Couldn't we save a lot of lives outlawing any non-essential driving?
Are you aware of how many people die of heart disease each year, wouldn't it make sense to outlaw fast food, and HFCS?

[Soloist]

That isn't my point at all. Josh highlighted Holmes County as a Covid success story compared to the rest of the country because in the current Covid case rate map it is lighter color than the surrounding counties and region. I simply took a deeper dive into the data to see if indeed Holmes County is doing better than the rest of the state of Ohio or country at large. And it turns out no. The opposite is actually true. Holmes County is, in fact, doing much worse when you look at the metrics that actually matter: Hospitalizations and death.

There probably isn't any place in the US that could be considered a smashing success when it comes to preventing Covid. You would probably have to look to countries like New Zealand with 50 Covid deaths since the beginning of the pandemic to see what smashing success looks like.

So deaths are now the only thing that matter.

So if no one dies of COVID, but the entire country becomes suicidal due to a lack of human connection or meaningful work, that is still a huge success in your mind.

Couldn't we save a lot of lives outlawing any non-essential driving?
Are you aware of how many people die of heart disease each year, wouldn't it make sense to outlaw fast food, and HFCS?

You two would have to agree on what success looks like otherwise this is circle arguments.

[nett]

You two would have to agree on what success looks like otherwise this is circle arguments.

That's true, so I'm pointing out the absurdity of only defining in success in number of COVID coded deaths.

[Valerie]

Yes, in the family's mind that is the only suspect. The son did have a long-standing heart condition but was stable until this point. It doesn't seem they were opposed to him getting the vaccine and at this point they still think he did the best he knew under the circumstances but now they kind of wish he hadn't gotten the shot.

Unfortunately, for a younger person with known heart issues, the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine far outweighs any risk from COVID. It's even much more risk than myocarditis from a COVID infection.

If their son had a doctor, that doctor should have advised him against the vaccine.

Sincere question: Is there any instance of doctors advising against the vaccine/boosters??
i live between IL, WA, MI. i’m not aware of the possibility.

There are some, yes. I listen to their talks. In addition to those I've heard there are two doctors in my town that do not recommend the vaccine

[Soloist]

Unfortunately, for a younger person with known heart issues, the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine far outweighs any risk from COVID. It's even much more risk than myocarditis from a COVID infection.

If their son had a doctor, that doctor should have advised him against the vaccine.

Sincere question: Is there any instance of doctors advising against the vaccine/boosters??
i live between IL, WA, MI. i’m not aware of the possibility.

There are some, yes. I listen to their talks. In addition to those I've heard there are two doctors in my town that do not recommend the vaccine

I know a few doctors recommending against it too.

[Ken]

You two would have to agree on what success looks like otherwise this is circle arguments.

That's true, so I'm pointing out the absurdity of only defining in success in number of COVID coded deaths.

I'm not trying to define success or failure. I made one simple point. Which was to take issue with Josh's specific assertion that Holmes County Ohio was doing much better than the rest of the country because it has both a low vaccination rate and a low reported Covid case rate. I did a deeper dive into the actual data and found that both deaths and hospitalizations in Holmes County greatly exceed both the statewide averages for Ohio as well as the nation. In fact, Holmes County numbers are higher than even the worst state in the country....Mississippi.

I have noticed that you and Josh have gone off in all manner of side tangents rather than dispute any of the data that I presented to make the case.

[mike]

Daily new cases are now the highest on record in the US.



But the daily new deaths numbers are still hanging out where they have been for the last two months, despite the fact that cases have been climbing practically all that time.