I agree. I don't either. And most evangelicals don't either - IMO. See just a couple more examples.Josh wrote:But Jesus never described "repentance" as mere mental assent or signing up for a new belief system; his model was "Go and sin no more."
https://carm.org/questions/about-doctri ... ll-we-want
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/Q ... ving-faith
I agree we can overcome sin - we don't have to live in sin, or under the power of sin, etc. The Holy Spirit brings in a change of heart and a new attitude towards sin. Christians do not live in willful sin, or follow sin and Christ at the same time. Sometimes it sounds like you believe it is possible to live entirely sinlessly, but if not, maybe we don't really disagree on this point. I said earlier that we sin daily, which I stand by - that doesn't mean we live in sin; but neither do we live in fear every day that we committed some sort of sin which will cause us to lose our salvation. Even Tertullian said this:His message generally was, "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish." Now he did say that all who believed on him would experience freedom and living water and be delivered from their sins, but his model seems to be more "Those who believe in me will have the power to stop sinning", as opposed to merely "Those who believe me won't have to have any consequences for their ongoing sin."
It is a fact that there are some sins which beset us every day and to which we all are tempted. For who will not, as it may chance, fall into unrighteous anger and continue this even beyond sundown, or even strike another or, out of easy habit, curse another, or swear rashly, or violate his pledged faith, or tell a lie through shame or the compulsion of circumstances? In the management of affairs, in the performance of duties, in commercial transactions, while eating, looking, listening — how often we are tempted! So much so that if there were no pardon in such cases, no one would be saved. For these sins, then, pardon is granted through Christ who intercedes with the Father. [from On Purity 19]
I really don't think it's nonsense. Many Old Order are saved - hopefully a growing number. But many are not. You speak of "mental assent" - that is exactly what happens with some of the Amish. They mentally assent to the proposition that Jesus died and rose again - but they place their faith in their own works and in the church standards for salvation. "Some" not all. If they think God balances their good works and bad works on a scale, and they have to make sure there are more good works than bad, they are probably not saved; if they don't have assurance of salvation, but only hope they have been "good enough", they are probably not saved. If they frown on people teaching the necessity of being born again, they are probably not saved. My grandpa and grandma, who grew up in the Old Order, were not saved when they joined the church and were married in the early 1940s. They spoke to some friends who were learning of the need to be born again, and went to some revival meetings and heard the gospel, and were saved. And for that, they were excommunicated. Much of my grandpa's family had almost nothing to do with him for most of his life.(My grandparents became members at the "King Church" in Hartville, an Amish church similar to the New Order but a bit more liberal).The Protestant view, which Luther assembled, is that Jesus took all the consequences of sin and thus there are no more consequences for us as long as have the right mental assent to the right belief system. That is, unfortunately, the core of Evangelicalism today, and leads to such nonsense ideas as that Old Order Amish are not "saved".