Haiti Kidnapping

[Grace]

Either way, even if we disagree with their decision to be over there or to have brought their children, it seems like now is not the time to point out all the mistakes we think they did to get in this situation. As Christians, our primary focus should be praying for them and supporting their families.

You are right,and possibly I should not have brought it up. I have been praying for those kidnapped and their families.

[ohio jones]

My question is, what testimony does CAM project,when they ignore the United States Government's travel advisory and now that same government that they didn't listen to, has to spend man power and resources to get them to safety?

One thing, its an advisory... Another thing is I am sure they would still have gone even if the Government said "we will not bail you out of trouble"

At some point the advisories become almost worthless. Half of the countries in the world have a Level 4 travel advisory (Do Not Travel); Haiti is lumped in with such extremely dangerous places as the UK and Switzerland. Another 40% are Level 3 (Reconsider Travel), leaving only 7% at Level 2 (Increased Caution) and 3% at Level 1 (Normal Precautions).

If we only sent people to "safe" countries, we wouldn't get much mission work done.

[Neto]

In regards to taking children (or women, for that matter) into "dangerous environments" (especially in regards to organized criminal danger) I would suggest that a distinction be made between short-term "missions" (especially such as building projects) and long-term (for example, 15 years or more) missionary work.
[Even medically related dangers should receive more attention in cases of short-term mission trips. Long-term missionary candidates receive special training and precautions (at least in the case of organizations like WBT) in regards to the dangers of things like malaria, cholera, amoebic dysentery, etc. Of course we sometimes had visitors come into the village that got off of the plane wearing rubber boots (because of the "snakes"), while we walked out to great them in our sandals. Some some are very cautious, and others won't listen to basic advice, like staying inside (or using special protection) during dawn & dusk hours in malaria areas. Some are inclined to "flaunt their faith", throwing caution to the wind. Living long-term with these dangers is the price of doing ministry, but getting malaria or Dengue on a 1 or 2 week stay because of a lack of proper precautions is, in my opinion, over the top. (Disclaimer: None of us caught malaria, Dengue fever, or Cholera, although it was around us at various times during our years in the Amazon. I had amoebic dysentery on various occasions, apparently being very susceptible to it. It can turn a 10-day work project into multiple days on a starvation diet, unable to do any useful work. All it takes is a soft drink with ice made with tap water, a salad with lettuce that was not properly washed, or a fruit "smoothy" made w/ tap water or "tap ice". Or, just touching your lips after handling produce in the market or grocery store.)]

[Soloist]

In regards to taking children (or women, for that matter) into "dangerous environments" (especially in regards to organized criminal danger) I would suggest that a distinction be made between short-term "missions" (especially such as building projects) and long-term (for example, 15 years or more) missionary work.
[Even medically related dangers should receive more attention in cases of short-term mission trips. Long-term missionary candidates receive special training and precautions (at least in the case of organizations like WBT) in regards to the dangers of things like malaria, cholera, amoebic dysentery, etc. Of course we sometimes had visitors come into the village that got off of the plane wearing rubber boots (because of the "snakes"), while we walked out to great them in our sandals. Some some are very cautious, and others won't listen to basic advice, like staying inside (or using special protection) during dawn & dusk hours in malaria areas. Some are inclined to "flaunt their faith", throwing caution to the wind. Living long-term with these dangers is the price of doing ministry, but getting malaria or Dengue on a 1 or 2 week stay because of a lack of proper precautions is, in my opinion, over the top. (Disclaimer: None of us caught malaria, Dengue fever, or Cholera, although it was around us at various times during our years in the Amazon. I had amoebic dysentery on various occasions, apparently being very susceptible to it. It can turn a 10-day work project into multiple days on a starvation diet, unable to do any useful work. All it takes is a soft drink with ice made with tap water, a salad with lettuce that was not properly washed, or a fruit "smoothy" made w/ tap water or "tap ice". Or, just touching your lips after handling produce in the market or grocery store.)]

I can completely agree. Where people would bicker is what length would turn into long term.

For practical reasons, a married man shouldn't be away long term from his wife and children. Much more then a month would be problematic in my eyes. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but I think it isn't wise.
As far as special training goes, its only as good as the level of complacency the person has. Ebola is a contact disease, yet "highly trained" nurses and doctors got it. Why? they suck at taking suits off, not to mention the CDC guidelines for removing them isn't safe or effective
I'm also not very fond of short term missions... I think its far more effective to live with people for years to build relationships and contacts rather then change them every 1-3 years. Of course... that would require people to sacrifice too much

[Josh]

A rather obvious observation is that it may be time to focus more on other countries and less on Haiti. CAM and Anabaptists in general give an overwhelming amount of focus on Haiti.

A bigger question is why the focus on foreign missions at all. Are there not enough mission fields in the U.S. and Canada?

[ohio jones]

Go therefore and make disciples of your own nation...

[Joy]

A rather obvious observation is that it may be time to focus more on other countries and less on Haiti. CAM and Anabaptists in general give an overwhelming amount of focus on Haiti.

A bigger question is why the focus on foreign missions at all. Are there not enough mission fields in the U.S. and Canada?

Some parts of the world are far, far more receptive to the Gospel than here in this country.

Take prisons, for example. If in another country, missionaries can preach or speak to whole dormitories, one after another, of men or women who listen carefully, and have open hearts to repenting and trusting Christ, how does that compare to our prisons? Far less freedom to reach prisoners here. And I certainly appreciate prison ministry in this country.

Or schools. While in the last century, my own family reached hundreds of small schools in this state, this is no longer possible to that extent. But African schools, many of a thousand or more "learners", welcome the preaching of the Gospel. To compare the coldness of even some Christian schools in this country, to the teaching or preaching of the Bible, say to a mosque school, where the principal welcomes an evangelist who is straightforward: "No, you don't have to refer to Him as Isa--you can call Him Jesus--they'll know who you're talking about." They understand that the rampant crime, murder, rape, insurrection isn't getting any better: they are hungry for peace!

The harvest is urgent, and we need to minister wholeheartedly wherever God calls us, whether at home or abroad.

[Ken]

A rather obvious observation is that it may be time to focus more on other countries and less on Haiti. CAM and Anabaptists in general give an overwhelming amount of focus on Haiti.

A bigger question is why the focus on foreign missions at all. Are there not enough mission fields in the U.S. and Canada?

As someone who has worked overseas myself, I would suggest that we should generally be MORE engaged with the rest of the world than less. But that doesn’t necessarily mean sending families into war zones or dangerous situations as Haiti currently appears to be. It may well be the case that for places like Haiti, Syria, Yemen, etc. The best we can do is engage more at the policy level, pushing for the reforms and attention to these forgotten parts of the world so that normal life can return. Or maybe temporarily restricting activities to those parts of the country that are actually secure and relatively safe if any such exist. It might even mean doing things like working with Haitian refugees in places like the Dominican Republic rather than with Haiti itself. That is actually a very good subject for another thread. Basically how do we engage with parts of the world that might be too dangerous or insecure to do it the normal way of sending families?

Someone else made the distinction between short-term and long-term missions. I think this is also a good point. I would define long-term missions as those when someone or a family dedicates a significant portion of their life to actually move to and settle in a foreign country. I would say 2+ years at a minimum is required. In my experience it takes at least a year just to get your feet under you and well established in a foreign community. Sometimes more. Short-term is when people “parachute in” to engage with just one short-term project like building a school or church or something for a month or so. That is mostly just tourism. And it isn’t a bad thing. It is good for people to get new experiences. But it isn’t something I would prioritize or do in war zones or other insecure areas.

[hillperson]

https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.c ... iNJjydALoo


An article from Focus on the Family to consider.

[temporal1]

https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.c ... iNJjydALoo
An article from Focus on the Family to consider.

thank you.
this incident has had me mulling over what a dangerous endeavor missionary work can be, violent incidents occur every year, all through the years - mostly ignored in the mainstream. i don’t recall missionary work ever listed in occasional reports on
“most dangerous jobs,” or those sorts of reports.

.. Pursuing the Great Commission remains the world’s most dangerous occupation.
And yet it pays very poorly by every earthly means. But there is no greater pursuit that pays as rich and rewarding an eternal dividend.

Let’s pray for these seventeen saints –
and for all those around the world sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ to a hurting world.

the article says there are 400,000 working in active missions.

God works in mysterious ways.
It can be presumed these kidnappers did not set out to spread The Good News of Jesus Christ. Isn’t that what is happening?

In the last year or so, i’ve read some about how the plundering pagan Vikings took slaves, including defenseless Catholic monks+priests, who then, in meekness, with Truth, converted their captors.

“Vikings didn’t just murder monks and pillage monasteries – they helped spread Christianity too”
https://theconversation.com/vikings-did ... too-128910