Natural (God given) immunity is superior

[Bootstrap]

“Little risk” - for young men the risk of heart incidents as the same risk as dying from covid. See the data from the UK.

Please point to the study you are referring to.

[Josh]

“Little risk” - for young men the risk of heart incidents as the same risk as dying from covid. See the data from the UK.

Please point to the study you are referring to.

Do a Google search.

I’ve provided plenty of studies in the past, all of which you’ve handwaved away. I’m done playing your game.

[Bootstrap]

“Little risk” - for young men the risk of heart incidents as the same risk as dying from covid. See the data from the UK.

Please point to the study you are referring to.

Do a Google search.

I’ve provided plenty of studies in the past, all of which you’ve handwaved away. I’m done playing your game.

I don't do much hand-waving,, actually. But I do ask others to provide data for their claims. To be blunt, I think a lot of "facts" used in these discussions aren't facts at all. Grounding things to verifiable truth is important.

In this case, I think you are doing the hand-waving, refusing to provide information to back your claims.

[GaryK]

If it is actually getting great results, there should be data to show that. Without that, how can we possibly know that they are actually getting great results?

Lots of other doctors are saying these things do not work. How do we know who is right without data? Who knows how to evaluate data if not scientists?

Have you looked at the peer reviewed studies they present?

Yes, and so have others. I mentioned this in the Ivermectin thread:

What about the data you looked at is not convincing? I'm no expert in reading studies but I would have thought data showing those kind of results would be classified as getting great results.

[Bootstrap]

What about the data you looked at is not convincing? I'm no expert in reading studies but I would have thought data showing those kind of results would be classified as getting great results.

Let me respond in the ivermectin thread. I really do think it's easiest to pursue truth by staying on topic in a thread.

[Josh]

Please point to the study you are referring to.

Do a Google search.

I’ve provided plenty of studies in the past, all of which you’ve handwaved away. I’m done playing your game.

I don't do much hand-waving,, actually. But I do ask others to provide data for their claims. To be blunt, I think a lot of "facts" used in these discussions aren't facts at all. Grounding things to verifiable truth is important.

In this case, I think you are doing the hand-waving, refusing to provide information to back your claims.

Why don’t you do a bit of your own research and find out how many young men in the UK are experiencing heart problems due to the vaccine?

I don’t have a duty to provide convincing proof to you. I am making the bald claim that young males in the UK are experiencing heart problems / death at a higher rate from the vaccine than the rate of covid deaths for them.

If you want to keep playing this game, keep playing. I don’t actually make claims I can’t back up. But I’ll give you a chance to do your own research first.

[Bootstrap]

In this case, I think you are doing the hand-waving, refusing to provide information to back your claims.

Why don’t you do a bit of your own research and find out how many young men in the UK are experiencing heart problems due to the vaccine?

I don’t have a duty to provide convincing proof to you.

OK, you don't want to provide the evidence. Nobody is forced to. I don't believe you. I'm not forced to research this either, it's your claim, it seems really unlikely to me. I won't believe you if you don't back it up. We can move on.

[nett]

This thread is pretty off the wall. Is there still anyone who disputes that natural COVID immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity? Boostrap said he "wasn't convinced" it was, before Wayne accused me of lying.

I'd like to get back to where we were. Boot, are you still not convinced? I posted a large number of studies that had conclusive results. If you aren't convinced, I'd like to see your counter-studies that either dispute or refute the studies I posted.

[Josh]

In this case, I think you are doing the hand-waving, refusing to provide information to back your claims.

Why don’t you do a bit of your own research and find out how many young men in the UK are experiencing heart problems due to the vaccine?

I don’t have a duty to provide convincing proof to you.

OK, you don't want to provide the evidence. Nobody is forced to. I don't believe you. I'm not forced to research this either, it's your claim, it seems really unlikely to me. I won't believe you if you don't back it up. We can move on.

This isn’t a battle with me, Boot. Do you want to know the truth about mortality for this vaccine or not?

The facts are a simple Google search away. You can choose to do your own research, or you can choose ignorance.

[Bootstrap]

This thread is pretty off the wall. Is there still anyone who disputes that natural COVID immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity? Boostrap said he "wasn't convinced" it was, before Wayne accused me of lying.

I'd like to get back to where we were. Boot, are you still not convinced? I posted a large number of studies that had conclusive results. If you aren't convinced, I'd like to see your counter-studies that either dispute or refute the studies I posted.

Thanks, I appreciate you bringing us back on track.

So far, I'm not convinced that natural Covid immunity is superior to vaccines. First, way too many people die if they get Covid, the whole point is to avoid death, and these deaths occur primarily for people who are not vaccinated and have not had Covid yet. Second, people have very different immune responses to catching Covid and studies are showing different results. Vaccines have a much more predictable response, most people respond the same way. The greatest immunity to Covid seems to be people who have had both the vaccines and a case of Covid.

But it's still early, and different studies have shown different results.

This article is an overview from an interview on June 31st, it matches my current understanding - I should look for a more recent literature review or interview on this level. This article discusses the differences between natural and vaccine immunity at a helpful level:

How long does covid-19 immunity last?

How does natural immunity compare with vaccine induced immunity?
Various studies have shown that an immune response involving memory T and B cells emerges after covid-19 infection.11 But people’s immune systems tend to respond in very different ways to natural infection,12 notes Eleanor Riley, professor of immunology and infectious disease at the University of Edinburgh. “The immune response after vaccination is much more homogenous,” she says, adding that most people generally have a really good response after vaccination. Data from the clinical trials of the leading vaccine candidates have found T and B cell reactivity.13

Does vaccination make a difference to those who have already had covid-19?
There is some evidence that vaccination can sharpen immunity in people who have previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and recovered. A letter published in the Lancet in March discussed an experiment in which 51 healthcare workers in London were given a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Half of the healthcare workers had previously recovered from covid-19 and it was they who experienced the greatest boost in antibodies—more than 140-fold from peak pre-vaccine levels—against the virus’s spike protein.14