Natural (God given) immunity is superior

[GaryK]

Early on, if there had been just as great a push by the experts to come up with early treatment protocols as there was to develop vaccines, most likely those 2021 numbers you cite would be much lower and who knows how much further ahead we would be in terms of herd immunity and ending the pandemic. My thinking on this has been influenced by groups like FLCCC.

There has been a great deal of research in treatment protocols of all kinds. In fact, the treatments the FLCCC points to have been researched, they just didn't have convincing data. If there were simple and effective treatments for Covid-19, we would be in a very different place.

The FLCCC has failed to convince the scientific community or the medical community with the kind of data they require.

I'm more interested in how they are influencing doctors actually treating covid than I am in what the scientific community thinks about them. Apparently, many physicians all over the world, believe in their treatment protocols and are getting great results.

[Bootstrap]

There has been a great deal of research in treatment protocols of all kinds. In fact, the treatments the FLCCC points to have been researched, they just didn't have convincing data. If there were simple and effective treatments for Covid-19, we would be in a very different place.

The FLCCC has failed to convince the scientific community or the medical community with the kind of data they require.

I'm more interested in how they are influencing doctors actually treating covid than I am in what the scientific community thinks about them. Apparently, many physicians all over the world, believe in their treatment protocols and are getting great results.

If it is actually getting great results, there should be data to show that. Without that, how can we possibly know that they are actually getting great results?

Lots of other doctors are saying these things do not work. How do we know who is right without data? Who knows how to evaluate data if not scientists?

[GaryK]

There has been a great deal of research in treatment protocols of all kinds. In fact, the treatments the FLCCC points to have been researched, they just didn't have convincing data. If there were simple and effective treatments for Covid-19, we would be in a very different place.

The FLCCC has failed to convince the scientific community or the medical community with the kind of data they require.

I'm more interested in how they are influencing doctors actually treating covid than I am in what the scientific community thinks about them. Apparently, many physicians all over the world, believe in their treatment protocols and are getting great results.

If it is actually getting great results, there should be data to show that. Without that, how can we possibly know that they are actually getting great results?

Lots of other doctors are saying these things do not work. How do we know who is right without data? Who knows how to evaluate data if not scientists?

Have you looked at the peer reviewed studies they present?

[GaryK]

I listened to a Dr Fauci interview, where a physician who works for the network asked him why those with natural immunity should get vaccinated. The physician cited the Israeli study. Dr Fauci answered the question by saying that the point is a good one but that he doesn't have a solid answer. He continued by saying we really do need to sit down and talk about this. It seems strange to me that this hasn't been more thoroughly researched and that he doesn't have a solid answer.

[Bootstrap]

If it is actually getting great results, there should be data to show that. Without that, how can we possibly know that they are actually getting great results?

Lots of other doctors are saying these things do not work. How do we know who is right without data? Who knows how to evaluate data if not scientists?

Have you looked at the peer reviewed studies they present?

Yes, and so have others. I mentioned this in the Ivermectin thread:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4077&p=135105&hilit=flccc#p135105

For the purposes of this thread, it's worth mentioning the FLCCC position on vaccines:

The FLCCC Alliance has always maintained that our protocols are a bridge to vaccines and a safety net for those who clannot or have not been vaccinated or are vaccinated and have concerns regarding declining protection against emerging variants. Vaccines have shown efficacy in preventing the most severe outcomes of COVID-19 and are an important part of a multi-modal strategy that must also include early treatment. The decision to get a vaccine should be made in consultation with your health care provider.

[Josh]

Japan is fully in board with ivermectin

It doesn’t earn hospitals $35,000 per patient put on a ventilator tho

[Wade]

I understand that since restrictions have come to a point that some of us are being stopped from buying and selling in certain ways that the resemblance of the mark of beast in these vaccines is troubling for you vaccinated people. I'm sorry you keep trying so hard to find the "facts" you want.
It probably isn't the mark but it is a stark warning that Christians should be much slower in moving forward with going along with the ways if the world. Trust God and fear Him.

Matthew 10:28
[28]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[Josh]

The place of my birth has a state premier who says you can’t participate in the economy if you aren’t vaccinated.

In other words, he will not let me buy or sell unless I agree to accept using aborted fetal tissue.

Maybe it’s not the mark of the beast - but it’s the same thing. There is no room for any exceptions. No religious exemption. No conscientious objection.

[Bootstrap]

I listened to a Dr Fauci interview, where a physician who works for the network asked him why those with natural immunity should get vaccinated. The physician cited the Israeli study. Dr Fauci answered the question by saying that the point is a good one but that he doesn't have a solid answer. He continued by saying we really do need to sit down and talk about this. It seems strange to me that this hasn't been more thoroughly researched and that he doesn't have a solid answer.

My current understanding of the research, which could be wrong, is this:

1. Natural immunity does convey significant protection. The main reason for using vaccines instead: too many people die of Covid-19 before getting that natural immunity.
2. Studies so far seem to disagree whether vaccines or natural immunity is better at handling new strains, both are very good.
3. At least one study suggested that vaccine immunity declines over a 6 month period, but other studies seem to disagree. This is not yet clear.
4. There is little risk to getting a vaccine. There may be benefit, even for those who have natural immunity.

In any area of research, things take time to settle down, one paper has to be compared to others, that takes time. The delta variant is quite new here, and it is the focus of much of this research.

[Josh]

“Little risk” - for young men the risk of heart incidents as the same risk as dying from covid. See the data from the UK.