New axis of tensions

[barnhart]

On one of the suspended threads I remarked that Anabaptist churches are experiencing conflict on how to relate to government that do not fall along red/blue fault lines. DanZ responded it was due to deeper theological differences. I would like to hear more of his thoughts.

[Ken]

On one of the suspended threads I remarked that Anabaptist churches are experiencing conflict on how to relate to government that do not fall along red/blue fault lines. DanZ responded it was due to deeper theological differences. I would like to hear more of his thoughts.

I took him to mean an axis of engagement with politics on one end vs distance from politics on the other, as opposed to an axis of right vs left or red vs blue.

But I'm curious to hear what he meant too.

[Dan Z]

Hi Barnhart. I think in the statement you were referring to I said something like "The rift that is occurring within Conservative Anabaptist circles is more a matter of worldview than politics." I think you used the word "theology," which is not incorrect, but I like the word "worldview" (driven by theology) better because it is a more wholistic/lived-out, less doctrinaire term.

Back with some more thoughts shortly...

[Dan Z]

Let's see if we can do this without devolving into politics...

Recently, Timothy Dalrymple of Christianity Today recently wrote an article examining the divide within conservative (evangelical) Christianity. It respectfully and empathetically captures much of what I was already thinking...so I would recommend it for folks who want to dig deeper into understand this divide.

In a nutshell, Dalrymple sees two visions within conservative Christianity for the Church and the Kingdom of God: The Church Regnant, and The Church Remnant. In his words:

• "The Church Regnant sees the kingdom of God, the end toward which we strive, as a world in which men and women are free to follow their faith, life is held sacred from conception to death, families can raise their children in biblical truth, churches take the lead in charity, and government provides a stable order for the flourishing of meaningful enterprise...
  
  It leads the Church Regnant to place a higher value on the acquisition and use of political power. The Church Regnant views the election starkly as a battle between good and evil. The vices of the president seem small when the virtue of the world hangs in the balance. Winning political power means protecting the Christian way of life and sowing seeds of truth and goodness into culture, and thus bringing God’s blessing upon the land. Losing political power means the culture spirals into deepening immorality and untruth, eroding the foundations of society and leading to greater suffering for all."
  
  "The Church Remnant is captivated by a fundamentally different vision of the kingdom of God. The kingdom, in this view, is too sacred to be confused with winning elections and passing laws. It is not a political dispensation or social order. It is not a kingdom of this world. Instead, the kingdom breaks into time and space when men and women sent by the king seek the lost and serve the least. The kingdom of heaven is among us when we speak the gospel in word and deed, serve the homeless and the refugee, and come alongside our suffering neighbors.
  
  For the Church Remnant, the kingdom of God is less about the acquisition of power than the divestment of power, laying down our rights and privileges as Christ did (Philippians 2) in order to serve the powerless...The kingdom of heaven is not about the sword but about the cup, not about defending ourselves but about dying to ourselves...The court of power possesses an enormous gravitational attraction that too often distorts our ability to see and to witness Christ clearly."

This does a pretty good job of explaining the divide IMO. The Church Regnant represents what I would call the Evangelical/Calvinist view, and the Church Remnant is more representative of historic Anabaptism (although the Anabaptist view of the Kingdom has more real-world "social order" implications than Dalrymple recognizes).

I would only add - and this is important - that behind these two visions are two differing guiding hermeneutical approaches - The Church Regnant is a result of a hermeneutic rooted in broad Biblicism, the Church Remnant is the result of a Christocentric understanding of scripture.

[Dan Z]

In some ways, these two groups have existed side by side within the Evangelical (and more recently the Conservative Anabaptist) community for quite some time now...but the societal events of the last 8-12 years, the growth of echo-chamber information silos, a growing distrust among many in The Constitution of Knowledge (how members of a society come to know what they know), and the politicizing (weaponizing) of social media, have brought the rift into stark contrast.

It is possible that Evangelical Christianity and maybe even (Moderately) Conservative Anabaptism may be in the throws of an historic mitosis.

[Ken]

In some ways, these two groups have existed side by side within the Evangelical (and more recently the Conservative Anabaptist) community for quite some time now...but the societal events of the last 8-12 years, the growth of echo-chamber information silos, a growing distrust among many in The Constitution of Knowledge (how members of a society come to know what they know), and the politicizing (weaponizing) of social media, have brought the rift into stark contrast.

It is possible that Evangelical Christianity and maybe even (Moderately) Conservative Anabaptism may be in the throws of an historic mitosis.

I think there is also a lot of cross pollination today that didn't used to happen so much. There is so much mainstream evangelical media content being consumed within the Anabaptist community from TV channels, internet, and news magazines that didn't used to happen so much generations ago. When, if they even had a TV, there was only 3 channels, and the news was just the local paper, some Mennonite magazines, and maybe Readers Digest.

Or maybe it is just one-way pollination and not cross-pollination. I see some Mennonites absorbing some mainstream evangelical thought, but I don't see mainstream evangelicals like Southern Baptists absorbing any traditional Anabaptist thought.

[Josh]

In some ways, these two groups have existed side by side within the Evangelical (and more recently the Conservative Anabaptist) community for quite some time now...but the societal events of the last 8-12 years, the growth of echo-chamber information silos, a growing distrust among many in The Constitution of Knowledge (how members of a society come to know what they know), and the politicizing (weaponizing) of social media, have brought the rift into stark contrast.

It is possible that Evangelical Christianity and maybe even (Moderately) Conservative Anabaptism may be in the throws of an historic mitosis.

I think there is also a lot of cross pollination today that didn't used to happen so much. There is so much mainstream evangelical media content being consumed within the Anabaptist community from TV channels, internet, and news magazines that didn't used to happen so much generations ago. When, if they even had a TV, there was only 3 channels, and the news was just the local paper, some Mennonite magazines, and maybe Readers Digest.

Or maybe it is just one-way pollination and not cross-pollination. I see some Mennonites absorbing some mainstream evangelical thought, but I don't see mainstream evangelicals like Southern Baptists absorbing any traditional Anabaptist thought.

Anabaptists have moved in an evangelical / fundamentalist direction since the late 1800s, which predates mass media. This is not a new phenomenon.

The essence of being Old Order is to resist these trends; groups like Holdemans or Old German Baptist Brethren (Old Conference) would resist these trends as well although not as stringently as the Old Orders; most conservative Anabaptists already made the jump evangelical-fundamentalist thinking.

[Dan Z]

Anabaptists have moved in an evangelical / fundamentalist direction since the late 1800s, which predates mass media. This is not a new phenomenon.

The essence of being Old Order is to resist these trends; groups like Holdemans or Old German Baptist Brethren (Old Conference) would resist these trends as well although not as stringently as the Old Orders; most conservative Anabaptists already made the jump evangelical-fundamentalist thinking.

Well said Josh - the Old Orders, in particular, have been somewhat insulated from these thing over the years (e.g. the revivalism of the second great awakening, the fundamentalist incursion of the early 1900's, as well as the Evangelicalism of recent decades). I'm not sure how well they are holding up as well under the influence of Christian Nationalism however.

[barnhart]

Insightful Dan. I agree with your accessment that old order affiliated groups are as vulnerable as any other groups to christian nationalism, or church Regnant theory. That is why I called this division a new axis, the tensions are not exclusively along fundamentalist/liberal lines. I'm not wise enough to see where this is going, but I think it is significant.

[Josh]

Anabaptists have moved in an evangelical / fundamentalist direction since the late 1800s, which predates mass media. This is not a new phenomenon.

The essence of being Old Order is to resist these trends; groups like Holdemans or Old German Baptist Brethren (Old Conference) would resist these trends as well although not as stringently as the Old Orders; most conservative Anabaptists already made the jump evangelical-fundamentalist thinking.

Well said Josh - the Old Orders, in particular, have been somewhat insulated from these thing over the years (e.g. the revivalism of the second great awakening, the fundamentalist incursion of the early 1900's, as well as the Evangelicalism of recent decades). I'm not sure how well they are holding up as well under the influence of Christian Nationalism however.

They’re holding up quite well, although that means they aren’t moving in a leftward direction either. The most notable thing about Old Orders is that they resist rapid societal change, so, for example, nothing changed for them with the COVID panic, and nothing changed with regard to recent political disturbances.

Those moving in a worldly direction will, well, become more worldly. That’s been a fixture in Old Order culture for a century now.