"Anabaptist World"

[RZehr]

Intermediate conservatives plant churches. I’m doing that. Another one of ours was began the same way the same summer as we did, in MT.

[temporal1]

Intermediate conservatives plant churches. I’m doing that. Another one of ours was began the same way the same summer as we did, in MT.

i’m sad the thread you began on your church plant experience was lost with MD.
i enjoy reading everything you’ve shared about it.

i was remembering Sullymusic’s paper on worship/worship music. also, many helpful discussions about the importance of submission and obedience to God, which are now almost foreign concepts in the world. some of the basics can cause anger to merely suggest.

i think ohio jones has Sully’s paper.
it would be great to add it (as a PDF?) in the “Written Word” category.
(it may be there, i don’t think so.)

in my experience, pastors enjoy and encourage questions and interactions, there are various opportunities, as others have described, and, they enjoy appointments - that engage beyond knowing where to drop off pies and when childcare hours might be.

the internet has opened up discussion for pastors and elders with laypeople as nothing before.
this forum is a shining example!

we adjust to changes and quickly take them for granted.
there is a sad part to that. parts of life just get forgotten.

[ohio jones]

When I was a pastor, I tried to use the sermon to create discussion. I even structured a sermon where I asked people questions during it. Ugh...it’s like pulling teeth.

I understand there used to be seminary courses on Pastoral Dentistry, but they were extracted from the curriculum.

[Josh]

My qualms are mainly about the "Letters" section. Till now, MennoWorld had a system of "you write it under the article - we only sort out what defies our rules". But "The Mennonite" had stopped comments at all, and I already was afraid that they would not continue the MennoWorld practice. In fact they now have a system of "you write it to the editor and he allows it if he deems it useful". This discourages critical commenters, it also allows to process only critical comments who are seen as safe/harmless, because (a) dull/moronic or (b) over the edge.

I’ve always thought that church would be a MUCH more interesting and engaging place if congregants engaged the ministers by raising hands and asking questions and there was back and forth like in a classroom. Rather than just passively consuming content (and often just tuning it out). In my mind, I imagine that is much more like what the early church was like, meeting in people’s houses and such.

We do this every Sunday during Sunday school - or we did, before the government banned things like Sunday school. (Only the “officiant” can speak, per California regulations. No singing or talking from the audience and no group discussions.)

Thankfully Sunday school resumes in a few weeks for us on Ohio.

[Josh]

I’ve always thought that church would be a MUCH more interesting and engaging place if congregants engaged the ministers by raising hands and asking questions and there was back and forth like in a classroom. Rather than just passively consuming content (and often just tuning it out). In my mind, I imagine that is much more like what the early church was like, meeting in people’s houses and such.

Sounds like you haven't been to a CA church then or I attend a really good one? Because there is a lot of engagement, maybe not during the sermon in particular but during Sunday school and afterward I have been invited and encouraged to give push back if need be by the minister here. He asks questions and even singled me out to answer something recently even if it was a simple question during sermons.
And when they did have church services in our home it was obviously very open to engagement - they were all seemingly more comfortable than any others of us that aren't from a Mennonite background.

Yeah, not really my experience in any church, Menno or not. Maybe I’ve mostly just attended bad ones, or perhaps larger ones that are more formal. I haven’t been in any what you would call CA churches in many decades. Closest thing would be CMC churches which I didn’t realize until finding this forum are not actually considered “conservative.” But then as you know, I have a contrarian bent which isn’t always welcomed. So I mostly just keep my lip zipped out of respect and don’t try to make waves where they aren’t wanted. If we lived one place where we had deep roots I would probably be more invested. But we have moved around a lot in the past two decades, mostly or entirely in non-Menno areas. So I’ve always felt more like a guest.

When I went to a (more liberal) CMC church, there was far less discussion and asking questions. The Sunday school groups were much smaller, usually with no pastor etc present, and the format was to follow the lesson, not ask questions.

Generally speaking, the format of church was passively accepting information. I guess they absorbed this from the broader evangelical word.

When I went to a more conservative CMC congregation in Bellefontaine, the entire service was structured around open discussion. Half the attendees were seekers or a seeker’s family. Despite being more conservative, there was more ideological openness. I felt very comfortable attending and asking questions as a visitor.

[Ernie]

My impression is that ultra conservatives might be the most active in church planting and in doing so their congregations don't generally get as big as some other groups.

Do you have any comment on this, RZehr?

It is only the ultra-conservative churches in outlying areas that have a vision for church expansion and smaller congregations. In the big Mennonite centers, there congregations are just as big as, or larger than the intermediate, moderate, and progressive conservative congregations. (But not as big on the average as the Old Order Mennonite churches in the same areas.)

Intermediate conservatives plant churches. I’m doing that. Another one of ours was began the same way the same summer as we did, in MT.

[Szdfan]

When I was a pastor, I tried to use the sermon to create discussion. I even structured a sermon where I asked people questions during it. Ugh...it’s like pulling teeth.

I understand there used to be seminary courses on Pastoral Dentistry, but they were extracted from the curriculum.

I certainly could use pastoral care during dentistry

[Soloist]

When I was a pastor, I tried to use the sermon to create discussion. I even structured a sermon where I asked people questions during it. Ugh...it’s like pulling teeth.

I understand there used to be seminary courses on Pastoral Dentistry, but they were extracted from the curriculum.

I certainly could use pastoral care during dentistry

I hate dentists... Okay I hate the tools...

[Szdfan]

I understand there used to be seminary courses on Pastoral Dentistry, but they were extracted from the curriculum.

I certainly could use pastoral care during dentistry

I hate dentists... Okay I hate the tools...

It's ok, when I'm sitting there with my mouth filled with a torture device, it's hard to tell the difference.

[RZehr]

My impression is that ultra conservatives might be the most active in church planting and in doing so their congregations don't generally get as big as some other groups.

Do you have any comment on this, RZehr?

It is only the ultra-conservative churches in outlying areas that have a vision for church expansion and smaller congregations. In the big Mennonite centers, there congregations are just as big as, or larger than the intermediate, moderate, and progressive conservative congregations. (But not as big on the average as the Old Order Mennonite churches in the same areas.)

Intermediate conservatives plant churches. I’m doing that. Another one of ours was began the same way the same summer as we did, in MT.

Having never lived in, nor have family or in-laws living in any of the old, large, Mennonite communities, I can’t really speak on that. Here in the far west, I lived in the largest conservative Mennonite community west of the Rockys. A whole half dozen Mennonite and one Charity church within a half hour drive. There is not any ultra conservative churches here, we intermediates are the most strict.
For us, church size was definitely a driver in starting new churches. My home church now has three daughter churches and one granddaughter church.
These 4 outreach churches have been imbued with a strong amount of outreach church planting in their DNA, and at a certain size will send their own people to start new churches once they reach a certain size. New people might be told that one of the factors they should consider in joining, is the possibility of moving to start a new church in the future.

I think a conservative church will either have ugly splits, or church plant, or become more liberal or shrivel (or all four). A conservative church cannot grow bigger and bigger and bigger without this happening.