Good stock n commodity trading sites?

[Josh]

The Bible says to lend, expecting nothing in return - not even principal, let alone interest.

True.. Jesus said that... And to give and whosoever asks turn thou not away.. What did Jesus actually mean? Is there balancing or guiding verses or principles to that? Does Jesus tell us to lend everything we work for to any random drughead who will use it to overdose or go to the casino? Or if we tell them no are we conveniently ignoring or explaining away what Jesus literally said or meant?
We do have pretty good incentive to find a loophole around these things dont we? Is there a legitimate loophole or not?

Usury is wrong, a sin, and condemned in scripture and by the early church. And the result of usury is modern day monetary instability and inflation.

Jesus said not to lay up treasures on earth, but treasures in heaven.

The Bible describes gold as being good for paving stones. I don’t want to accumulate asphalt, other than perhaps a bit for the end of my driveway.

I don’t think we should give things to people that they don’t need or that will harm them. But we should give to people in need with an eye for helping them and helping their future and showing them the kingdom way.

Instead of levying usury, why not help someone buy a property with a land contract? Share the risk of loss with them, and they will understand they should share some of the gain with you.

[ken_sylvania]

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

So do you know of anyone who loans large sums long term at 0% interest to random people?
Do christians who charge interest not help those in need?

?

So, if you loaned me money and then the price of gold went down, would you pay me interest on the money then, or how would that work?

Or, in general, if we had a period of deflation, would you say that the lender should charge negative interest so that what he gets paid back is worth the same as he lent?

To answer your question:
If you look at long term charts, yes prices have a 7 to 10 year cycle. But the bottom of each 7 year cycle is significantly more US$ than the previous bottom, just like the high of each 7 year cycle is significantly more US$ than the previous high. And it is because of monetary expansionist policy(currency devaluation).
What you are saying might could fairly apply in a few short term situations over the last century.. But not long term. For the past. Things could change, but I think the Fed is so desparate to keep things going that they would throw us into hyper-inflation to counteract deflation. That is partly why the new high for stocks is 30,000 when before 2008 it was 14,500 and the 2008 crash went down below 8,000 but it would be all the more harder to get that low again partly because of an expanded monetary supply.
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I can point to people who have helped many with bad credit obtain housing by giving them large lnterest bearing realestate loans and helped them through times of hardship with months of nonpayment.
Can yall point to people who have helped many with bad credit obtain housing by giving them large 0% interest realestate loans and helped them through times of hardship with months of nonpayment?
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How are people of yalls persuation who blanket-condemn chargers of interest as people who close up their heart of compassion to those in need able to stay out of Matt 23:23 type condemnation?

I don't know the right answer either, and for the record I'm not convinced all interest is necessarily wrong. I do think some of the justifications for it being OK to charge interest don't hold water well. For instance, trotting out the argument you gave above about expansionist monetary policy to justify charging interest, and then charging interest at a rate higher than the rate of inflation. Not saying you do that, I have no idea if you do or not. Just that the general idea of charging interest is that you should be getting a rate high enough to cover (inflation) plus (cost of risk of non-repayment) plus (profit) which is not compatible with the expansionist monetary policy argument.

[Wade]

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

So do you know of anyone who loans large sums long term at 0% interest to random people?
Do christians who charge interest not help those in need?

Nope.
And not necessarily.

Please explain to me where there is one hint of Christ saying if someone doesn't have enough to buy something they need that we should make money off of them?

And if we are lending out to those who don't have need so they can purchase something beyond a need then why is that money allowed to be used for another persons want and not going to a need?

[PaulD]

I don't know the right answer either, and for the record I'm not convinced all interest is necessarily wrong. I do think some of the justifications for it being OK to charge interest don't hold water well. For instance, trotting out the argument you gave above about expansionist monetary policy to justify charging interest, and then charging interest at a rate higher than the rate of inflation. Not saying you do that, I have no idea if you do or not. Just that the general idea of charging interest is that you should be getting a rate high enough to cover (inflation) plus (cost of risk of non-repayment) plus (profit) which is not compatible with the expansionist monetary policy argument.

That is a good point.
I need to figure up the 50 and 100 year price changes for some things to get a better idea of things! Perhaps 50 year farmland price change would give us a rate for realestate loans.
I know for last year I was paying about 5.5% or so on my farm mortgage, but the rates have dropped recently!

Usury is wrong, a sin, and condemned in scripture and by the early church.

Interesting! Your stance is clear and direct!
I see your point under the "hard money" economy.

And the result of usury is modern day monetary instability and inflation.

Hmm, I think I see history a bit differently there. Like for instance the reasons why they left the gold and silver standard and went to major monetary expansion, it was to create more government driven ability to expand the currency and expand the new economic system, in my opinion usury had little to do with it, but they needed to create more $ to crank up the economy and create more programs after the 1929 crash.. Long term a bad decision in my opinion.

I don’t think we should give things to people that they don’t need or that will harm them. But we should give to people in need with an eye for helping them and helping their future and showing them the kingdom way.

Instead of levying usury, why not help someone buy a property with a land contract? Share the risk of loss with them, and they will understand they should share some of the gain with you.

Interesting thoughts.
Honestly if I could choose a different era to live in, it would be an era more like that. Living out here in Kansas, it is pretty obvious that this was an amazing place to live back in its heyday (1880-1924) when the small homesteader farm reigned and everyone traded bought and sold locally in the small local towns with the rail depot and hardware. The economic change ruined the small farm which went from every family living on a 160ac farm and supporting themselves and the local town, to now farms of average 1,500 acres that do not support the local town, most old farmsteads are rotted down and overgrown in trees and the towns are lifeless and fallen into disrepair. And the family life and environment that once existed is gone.. Sad..

Please explain to me where there is one hint of Christ saying if someone doesn't have enough to buy something they need that we should make money off of them?

I dont think Christ ever said we should make any money at all. I wonder if he and Joseph charged for their carpentry work, I don't think Christ ever hints that they did.

And if we are lending out to those who don't have need so they can purchase something beyond a need then why is that money allowed to be used for another persons want and not going to a need?

I am with you there... It is pretty obvious that our land is filled with excess.. Sad..

Well, time to get a shower! "Working with my hands" today has me soaked in dirt and grease from head to toe with a few bloody knuckles for good measure!

[RZehr]

West Texas Intermediate Crude is currently at Negative $35.20 per barrel. They are paying to get rid of it. Unbelievable.

[Josh]

West Texas Intermediate Crude is currently at Negative $35.20 per barrel. They are paying to get rid of it. Unbelievable.

It's not quite that - people who hold futures contracts for May delivery don't want to take delivery, and now they have to find someone else who will release them from that obligation. Contracts for June delivery are still around $20.

The market is so illiquid right now that prices like -$35 or $1.75 a barrel are not really genuine - that's just the last offer anyone has put in the system. Doesn't mean a trade actually executed.

In any case, the price of oil seems to be stabilising at $10-20 for the foreseeable future.