Poll: Age for Dating and Marriage

[Ken]

And I don't believe kids under the age of 18 have the maturity and experience to independently navigate the adult world of work, housing, finance, child rearing, etc.

An open question is how is it that people at age 16 or 14 used to have the maturity and experience to independently manage things like working, taking care of children, taking care of their finances (including during the Depression), literally buying or building a house, and so on - things that now many in their 20s are unable to do.

They mostly didn't.

Also I think there is an enormous distinction between traditional societies (such as in Biblical times) when sons tended to simply follow in their father's footsteps by learning and taking over the family business or farm, and girls who got married would simply move from their father's house to their father-in-law's house where there were always older adults around. And today when the vast majority of young married couples strike out into the world alone.

Now there are certain traditional groups like the Amish whose societal structures may be more similar to Biblical times in that sons follow in their fathers footsteps and girls move from one established household to another and households tend to be multi-generational. But they are unusual in this modern world.

I would actually support a societal return to more of a multi-generational household approach. But our society and housing stock really isn't designed for that.

[JohnH]

My grandpa worked full time when he was 12 and was married by age 18 with his own house. This was during the Depression and there wasn't spare money to be living off of parents who were destitute anyway. My grandma's sister got married at age 14 and her husband wasn't much older and he actually built a house a few years later. That was considered normal back then.

Nowadays we have people in their 20s and 30s who complain housing is unaffordable and have no idea how to build a house. Something has definitely gone wrong.

[Ken]

My grandpa worked full time when he was 12 and was married by age 18 with his own house. This was during the Depression and there wasn't spare money to be living off of parents who were destitute anyway. My grandma's sister got married at age 14 and her husband wasn't much older and he actually built a house a few years later. That was considered normal back then.

Nowadays we have people in their 20s and 30s who complain housing is unaffordable and have no idea how to build a house. Something has definitely gone wrong.

In most jurisdictions in the US, building a house will likely cost more (perhaps much more) than buying an existing house. And both options are almost certainly unaffordable to newlywed teens unless they have trust funds or something.

And renting isn't often all that much better. Especially any place where good paying jobs are abundant.

Where is this place in the US where an unskilled teenager can support (house, clothe, transport, and feed) a family on a single income in 2025?

[R7ehr]

Zoning. First! I win.

[mike]

My grandpa worked full time when he was 12 and was married by age 18 with his own house. This was during the Depression and there wasn't spare money to be living off of parents who were destitute anyway. My grandma's sister got married at age 14 and her husband wasn't much older and he actually built a house a few years later. That was considered normal back then.

Nowadays we have people in their 20s and 30s who complain housing is unaffordable and have no idea how to build a house. Something has definitely gone wrong.

In most jurisdictions in the US, building a house will likely cost more (perhaps much more) than buying an existing house. And both options are almost certainly unaffordable to newlywed teens unless they have trust funds or something.

And renting isn't often all that much better.

Another reason young people may as well not date at 16 or 17. The chances of them being able to afford to live independently are much better if they have a bit of a down payment on a house by the time they get married. That or parents who can help them with it. Depending on circumstances, by 21 or 22, a young man can have a sizeable down payment for a house, even if he spent a year or two in VS. Singles living with their parents have good earning power with the lowest living expenses they will ever have. It's a crucial time for people to manage their money well. That said, if a young person chooses to give his or her time to voluntary or low-pay service work, this isn't always the case.

I've seen some of my single employees (old order Mennonite) whose parents appear to be well-off and in the construction business, who got beautiful, brand new homes when they married. For them it's obviously a very long-term proposition and the young married couples immediately get to work building up their own small farm or business. I would guess their house payments are a substantial part of their income. Most people aren't willing to work as hard and long as some of those folks, and can't or won't devote that big a portion of their income to housing. These are young people who only go to school till age 15 or so, and who (for the guys) are probably earning near adult-level wages in construction or mechanical repair starting at that age. Girls typically work as well in retail, greenhouse, or other local jobs. By the time they marry at 20-22 they likely have a significant down payment on a house.

[JohnL]

We don't really set specific age restrictions as each family has to decide about whether the child exhibits enough maturity to date or go to youth events. What we do as a church is to teach the youth that youth events are acceptable. One on one dating should wait until later in young adult life and preferably to a attend a group event. Biblical chastity is also taught.

Odd. The Baptists and Free-Will Baptists I have known just date like normal people do. Dating is common amongst high school age kids. Youth events are generally done more as an outreach to the community versus something to make church kids socialize with each other.

I have not observed Baptists or Free-Will Baptists to generally have a position that "one on one dating" should wait until "young adult life" and preferably be at group events.

I do agree that "biblical chastity" is certainly taught and expected.

Note, my experience with Free-Will Baptists is primarily limited to Appalachian area around TN/NC, so maybe it's different in other places.

Odd that you find it odd since Free Willers are each independent churches. We decide what we want to emphasize in our individual congregations and it doesn't matter where the church is located. It sounds like your "limited experience" as you call it with TN and NC is very limited. Lots of our little churches do something similar. Others don't. It's up to the congregation. We don't do big standards. We do individual congregation guidelines.

[Ken]

Zoning. First! I win.

Who said anything about zoning?

The cost of new home construction has more to do with tariffs, land costs, rising costs of raw materials, and building codes that prevent you from putting up a Brazilian-style favela shack with a mud floor and blue tarp roof.

Well, actually we have those here too. We just call them homeless encampments not favelas.

[ohio jones]

I have not observed Baptists or Free-Will Baptists to generally have a position that "one on one dating" should wait until "young adult life" and preferably be at group events.

Free Will in action.

[Ken]

My grandpa worked full time when he was 12 and was married by age 18 with his own house. This was during the Depression and there wasn't spare money to be living off of parents who were destitute anyway. My grandma's sister got married at age 14 and her husband wasn't much older and he actually built a house a few years later. That was considered normal back then.

Nowadays we have people in their 20s and 30s who complain housing is unaffordable and have no idea how to build a house. Something has definitely gone wrong.

In most jurisdictions in the US, building a house will likely cost more (perhaps much more) than buying an existing house. And both options are almost certainly unaffordable to newlywed teens unless they have trust funds or something.

And renting isn't often all that much better.

Another reason young people may as well not date at 16 or 17. The chances of them being able to afford to live independently are much better if they have a bit of a down payment on a house by the time they get married. That or parents who can help them with it. Depending on circumstances, by 21 or 22, a young man can have a sizeable down payment for a house, even if he spent a year or two in VS. Singles living with their parents have good earning power with the lowest living expenses they will ever have. It's a crucial time for people to manage their money well. That said, if a young person chooses to give his or her time to voluntary or low-pay service work, this isn't always the case.

I've seen some of my single employees (old order Mennonite) whose parents appear to be well-off and in the construction business, who got beautiful, brand new homes when they married. For them it's obviously a very long-term proposition and the young married couples immediately get to work building up their own small farm or business. I would guess their house payments are a substantial part of their income. Most people aren't willing to work as hard and long as some of those folks, and can't or won't devote that big a portion of their income to housing. These are young people who only go to school till age 15 or so, and who (for the guys) are probably earning near adult-level wages in construction or mechanical repair starting at that age. Girls typically work as well in retail, greenhouse, or other local jobs. By the time they marry at 20-22 they likely have a significant down payment on a house.

Around here the cheapest Zillow listing for a single family home in the entire metro area is this 3 br 1,288 sf home for $284,900 that is so trashed it looks like it will take another $50,000 just to make livable: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8910 ... 5615_zpid/

The cheapest move-in ready home is this 812 sf 2 bedroom listing for $329,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2108 ... 4406_zpid/

So assuming the cheapest home is in the $330,000 range, what does that look like in terms of cost for a newly married teenage age couple?

20% down payment on a $330,000 home will be $66,000.
And at today's 30 year fixed rate of 6.6% a mortgage calculator tells me the monthly mortgage including tax and insurance will be $2,154.87 which comes out to $25,858 per year.

Assuming this young couple is really stretching and putting 50% of their gross income into their mortgage that means an annual salary of $51,716. Now I don't know what the economy is like in your area, but not very many unskilled 18 year-olds are landing jobs with an annual salary for $51,716 which is about $25/hr. And that is to afford what is literally the cheapest single family house in this entire metro area of about 500,000.

Rents aren't much better frankly. The average rent around here is $1,990 and it will be higher than that if you want a family-sized unit and not a studio. Especially if you want an apartment on a transit line so you don't need a car.

So no, I don't encourage teenagers to rush into marriage. If you want to leave home, find a cheap shared housing situation with several roommates and save your money and build your job skills or career for a couple years until you are ready to take on the cost and responsibility of marriage and a family.

[ken_sylvania]

Advertisement from 1875 era:

CHANCE FOR A SPINSTER. - A young man in Aroostook County, Maine, advertising for a wife, speaks of himself as follows:
"I am eighteen years old, have a good set of teeth, and believe in Andy Johnson, the star- spangled banner, and the 4th of July. I have taken up a State lot, cleared up eighteen acres last year, and seeded ten of it down. My buckwheat looks first- rate, and the oats and potatoes are bully. I have got nine sheep, a two-year- old bull, and two heifers, besides a house and barn.
I want to get married. I want to buy bread and butter, hoop skirts, and waterfalls for some person of the female persuasion during life. That's what's the matter with me. But I don't know how to do it."

Imagine an eighteen year old in today’s economy being this accomplished in terms of housing, self sufficiency and farming.

I actually can imagine that - I know a few that would be somewhat close to that level of ambition.