November 22, 1963

[Aurien]

I'm not convinced that the respect suggested by DrWojo and the total allegiance to Jesus Christ results in the polar opposites developing in the dialogue. Perhaps it deserves its own thread. But, surely there are compatible ways to respectfully express gratitude for the privileges we experienced based on sacrifices made by many.

I am grateful for the freedoms that I have living here in America. It seems to me though that most sacrifices military personnel make are in unneeded wars. I understand fighting in World War II, but the fighting in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and other places appear to have been needless conflicts that did little more than waste money and cause many deaths. Some wars may be a "necessary evil." A lot though just seem to be unnecessary.

[AnthonyMartin]

I am grateful for the freedoms that I have living here in America. It seems to me though that most sacrifices military personnel make are in unneeded wars. I understand fighting in World War II, but the fighting in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and other places appear to have been needless conflicts that did little more than waste money and cause many deaths. Some wars may be a "necessary evil." A lot though just seem to be unnecessary.

I agree with this.

[Biblical Anabaptist]

I'm not convinced that the respect suggested by DrWojo and the total allegiance to Jesus Christ results in the polar opposites developing in the dialogue. Perhaps it deserves its own thread. But, surely there are compatible ways to respectfully express gratitude for the privileges we experienced based on sacrifices made by many.

I think (correct me if I am wrong) the whole idea of us "enjoying freedoms" because of the sacrifices made by many is a myth perpetuated by those who are trying to incite young men (and women) to march off into war and kill their fellow men.

I believe that your statement is misleading and in some ways incorrect. To argue that sacrifice made by many is a myth and did nothing to provide the current freedoms seems totally false to me. To argue that such war and sacrifice is the only way to achieve these freedoms would also seem incorrect to me. Whether or not you can endorse the methods of war does not seem to diminish the fact that it was a means successfully used for the results we currently enjoy.

Name one freedom that we in the US enjoy because of war. I can think of none. I am open to being enlightened on this.

[appleman2006]

I'm not convinced that the respect suggested by DrWojo and the total allegiance to Jesus Christ results in the polar opposites developing in the dialogue. Perhaps it deserves its own thread. But, surely there are compatible ways to respectfully express gratitude for the privileges we experienced based on sacrifices made by many.

I think (correct me if I am wrong) the whole idea of us "enjoying freedoms" because of the sacrifices made by many is a myth perpetuated by those who are trying to incite young men (and women) to march off into war and kill their fellow men.

I believe that your statement is misleading and in some ways incorrect. To argue that sacrifice made by many is a myth and did nothing to provide the current freedoms seems totally false to me. To argue that such war and sacrifice is the only way to achieve these freedoms would also seem incorrect to me. Whether or not you can endorse the methods of war does not seem to diminish that fact that it was a means successfully used for the results we currently enjoy.

It may have been successfully used but was it always the best or even the only way to achieve that end?
Having said that I tend to stay neutral on those issues. I do not champion the cause for or against war when my country chooses one or the other as I do not see that as my job. At the same time I think I can "honour the King" by showing respect without actually glorifying war.
BTW I stand when our national anthem is sung out of respect. Sometimes I even sing and justify it in that standing on guard for my country means something very different to me. I do it by praying for our leaders and obeying where ever I can. I very seldom remove my hat though. As I almost never wear one.

[appleman2006]

I think (correct me if I am wrong) the whole idea of us "enjoying freedoms" because of the sacrifices made by many is a myth perpetuated by those who are trying to incite young men (and women) to march off into war and kill their fellow men.

I believe that your statement is misleading and in some ways incorrect. To argue that sacrifice made by many is a myth and did nothing to provide the current freedoms seems totally false to me. To argue that such war and sacrifice is the only way to achieve these freedoms would also seem incorrect to me. Whether or not you can endorse the methods of war does not seem to diminish the fact that it was a means successfully used for the results we currently enjoy.

Name one freedom that we in the US enjoy because of war. I can think of none. I am open to being enlightened on this.

Maybe the freedom not to have to drive a VW.

oops I am probably be disrespectful again.

[AnthonyMartin]

I think (correct me if I am wrong) the whole idea of us "enjoying freedoms" because of the sacrifices made by many is a myth perpetuated by those who are trying to incite young men (and women) to march off into war and kill their fellow men.

I believe that your statement is misleading and in some ways incorrect. To argue that sacrifice made by many is a myth and did nothing to provide the current freedoms seems totally false to me. To argue that such war and sacrifice is the only way to achieve these freedoms would also seem incorrect to me. Whether or not you can endorse the methods of war does not seem to diminish the fact that it was a means successfully used for the results we currently enjoy.

Name one freedom that we in the US enjoy because of war. I can think of none. I am open to being enlightened on this.

I was thinking mostly about the rebellion in the late 1700s and partly the civil war in the late 1800s. I'm not saying there wouldn't have been another way, but the amazing blessings of resources and freedoms exist with those wars as the means of provision. I suppose your opinion could differ but I don't see another reasonable option.

[AnthonyMartin]

Most of the medical advancements you enjoy if you are injured in a car crash have been developed by lessons learned in war.

[AnthonyMartin]

It may have been successfully used but was it always the best or even the only way to achieve that end?
Having said that I tend to stay neutral on those issues. I do not champion the cause for or against war when my country chooses one or the other as I do not see that as my job. At the same time I think I can "honour the King" by showing respect without actually glorifying war.
BTW I stand when our national anthem is sung out of respect. Sometimes I even sing and justify it in that standing on guard for my country means something very different to me. I do it by praying for our leaders and obeying where ever I can. I very seldom remove my hat though. As I almost never wear one.

I would argue that it was never the best, or right, or only, way to achieve the end. I agree with your post.

[ken_sylvania]

Maybe war memorials and Arlington are places Mennonites should avoid. What business do we have going there if it is going to cause conflict?

Good point.

[Dan Z]

BTW I stand when our national anthem is sung out of respect. Sometimes I even sing and justify it in that standing on guard for my country means something very different to me. I do it by praying for our leaders and obeying where ever I can. I very seldom remove my hat though. As I almost never wear one.

I generally stand respectfully as well, hands at my side. Don't sing or recite the pledge. I have at times remained seated when I felt the tone of the moment was especially militant or idolatrous (including in a patriotic church setting or two).