MaxPC wrote:Sounds like it would make a good cautionary tale.
I hesitate to really say too much about Gloriavale at this point, because for their entire existence they had one leader who was quite obviously running a cult. Things are very different now that he's gone. I would like to go and meet with the people there sometime; the last time I was in New Zealand, I did not make contact in time, and it would have to make a long trip to the south island to do so.
The closest air service to the region, for a while, was run by an airline owned by Gloriavale, if that gives you any kind of idea what you'll be dealing with down there. Gloriavale's leadership had enough ties with the local business and government community they seemed to be able to get away with almost anything. (Interestingly, the Bruderhof also tried their hand for a while at operating their own charter airline.)
MaxPC wrote:Sounds like it would make a good cautionary tale.
Gloriavale's leadership had enough ties with the local business and government community they seemed to be able to get away with almost anything. (Interestingly, the Bruderhof also tried their hand for a while at operating their own charter airline.)
I have no doubt that this is problematic. I have seen other "charismatic" groups develop ties with local businesses and authorities in an effort to control cities, towns, counties, even states. They failed of course. However the emotional wreckage left in their wake caused serious damage to sincere Christian groups and witness. I would not be surprised if these groups contributed to the current apathy and hostility towards Christianity among the populace.
MaxPC wrote:Sounds like it would make a good cautionary tale.
I hesitate to really say too much about Gloriavale at this point, because for their entire existence they had one leader who was quite obviously running a cult. Things are very different now that he's gone. I would like to go and meet with the people there sometime; the last time I was in New Zealand, I did not make contact in time, and it would have to make a long trip to the south island to do so.
The closest air service to the region, for a while, was run by an airline owned by Gloriavale, if that gives you any kind of idea what you'll be dealing with down there. Gloriavale's leadership had enough ties with the local business and government community they seemed to be able to get away with almost anything. (Interestingly, the Bruderhof also tried their hand for a while at operating their own charter airline.)
The Bruderhof had a close relationship with Gloriavale for a time. I think they would have absorbed Gloriavale if they could (they have absorbed quite a few other communities). Some Gloriavale members actually defected to the Bruderhof. It may very well be that Rifton air services was inspired by Gloriavale.
Biblical Anabaptist wrote:
FWIW I personally know the author of that book and he is one of the most unhealthy people I have ever met. Seems he is constantly teetering on the brink of death.
Spiritually unhealthy though?
Not spiritually unhealthy, although he does seem to be easily influenced by teaching that I have serious questions about. It seems he is easily sucked in by those who are borderline cult if not a cult. At one point he was with this group https://gloriavale.org.nz/, which if you research (in fact you will find it on their own website) is IMO not much more than a sex cult. He picked up some teaching there that he promotes today. Personally, I do not consider him to be doctrinally sound.
Not spiritually unhealthy, although he does seem to be easily influenced by teaching that I have serious questions about. It seems he is easily sucked in by those who are borderline cult if not a cult. At one point he was with this group https://gloriavale.org.nz/, which if you research (in fact you will find it on their own website) is IMO not much more than a sex cult. He picked up some teaching there that he promotes today. Personally, I do not consider him to be doctrinally sound.
Bill Gothard on steroids?
J.M.
I don't know that he is Gothard on steroids, but the fact that he is Anabaptist makes folks more likely to fall for some of his teaching such as consubstantiation and the annihilation of the wicked.
Josh wrote:I did not know Hoover believed in those things.
Those beliefs are very strong in the Kingdom Christian movement, particularly Followers of the Way.
I'm trying to figure out what "beliefs" we are talking about here. I know Peter took up glossolalia from his visit to Gloriavale, and he has strongly defended them, but I don't know what other beliefs or ideas he picked up from them.
Josh wrote:I did not know Hoover believed in those things.
Those beliefs are very strong in the Kingdom Christian movement, particularly Followers of the Way.
I'm trying to figure out what "beliefs" we are talking about here. I know Peter took up glossolalia from his visit to Gloriavale, and he has strongly defended them, but I don't know what other beliefs or ideas he picked up from them.
Consubstantiation:
#1. Belief in the “real presence” of the body and blood of Christ in the communion meal, similar to the Lutheran position. Admirers of Bercot’s writings and “early church” tend to acquire this belief.
Annihilation of the wicked:
#2. A belief that those who aren’t resurrected to eternal life just cease to exist. This is also a common thing to pop up in those who are exploring early church beliefs.
If Hoover holds to these things, the question remains if he influenced Bercot and other KCs, or if Bercot and KCs influenced Hoover. I can attest that the community in Tasmania did not promote these beliefs at all, although some of them are open minded towards charismatic types of experiences.
It’s obvious to me that the Kingdom Christian movement is filling a void for Mennonites / Anabaptist, that was filled by Charity in the past.
There are differences, but the similarities are undeniable.
RZehr wrote:It’s obvious to me that the Kingdom Christian movement is filling a void for Mennonites / Anabaptist, that was filled by Charity in the past.
There are differences, but the similarities are undeniable.